The develop players thing was a separate discussion around the Central Contracts debate.
It’s an issue that while it is very live and relevant and getting lots of discussion right now, it isn’t driven by the players Munster produce right now, but more by the players they didn’t produce for the best part of a decade or so there.
Farrell is picking the best player available for his team. He has no earthly reason to do otherwise. I understand the cohesion argument if it’s a toss up style decision, but in most cases the players selected are quite clearly the best players available.
You’re here comparing Gavin Coombes to Max Deegan, or people frequently compare John Hodnett to Scott Penny, but those aren’t the relevant comps at all. Coombes and Hodnett need to be better than Caelan Doris and Josh Van der Flier and they just aren’t. That’s what’s stopped them getting Irish caps, nothing sinister, just that simple fact.
I dunno borderline ranty at this point i quite like lads like larmor as players but its fairlyfrustrating to see munster players offhand dismissed constantly
Mostly fair i think though were the only country thwt you have to be better than the incumbent or never play. Were also extremely slow to drop out of form players see pom and conan at times
Conor Murray is keeping out Craig Casey. This is an utterly ridiculous line of argument.
I see Haley as the best alternative to Keenan! What do I know. When Addison was healthy, I figured he'd be an option. For whatever reasons, the Frawleys and J.O.B's are picked. For me, Frawley is a fb in a pinch. Not international standard imo.
Did i disagree with that
I agree and i think farrells correct to pick who he wants but when haley then gets dismissed as bang average its a frustration.
Larmour started because he was the 24th man, that is it. I don't think anyone would legit debate that he is a better 24 man cover than Haley.
We'll never know what would have happened if Keenan was ruled out earlier. I, personally, would have preferred Haley there as I don't massively rate Larmour at 15, but I don't know what farrell would have done.
You can't just speculatively bring in cover for a week cause it impacts the training for everyone else. I think they genuinely thought Keenan was going to start - obviously enough given they named him.
That's fair this whole thing started by a lad saying coombes was no better than penny or deegan on a different thread
Haley is a good player but the reason he wasn’t on the radar when Keenan got hurt was down to the fact he’d missed the almost entire season with injury up to then (he’d played two games back prior to that).
His lack of versatility is obviously also an impediment to making wider squads since he’s a less likely bench option because of that compared to a guy like Jimmy O’Brien.
yeah, fair, which I don't agree with. And I get the frustration in general - it is perfectly understandable.
But most of it is pretty explainable.
To be fair, on this one I think people’s perceptions are skewed by the last year or so.
Farrell actually experimented quite a bit in 2021 and 2022 and gave out plenty of new caps; naturally as we got closer to a RWC he was going to narrow and focus on a core squad.
I’d be hopeful over the next year or so he does cast the net a bit wider and guys like John Hodnett, David McCann, Matthew Devine, Scott Wilson, Brian Gleeson get a chance to see what they can do at that next level.
His lack of versatilitys worked against him alright. I wonder how far we go down the depth chart before calling in a dedicated fullback
I think for example picking 4 backrows for every tier 1 test for 2 years prior to a world cup is ridiculous it as a selection ment we had to bring injured players to the world cup and for example we had quite a.raw second row coming off the bench in a world cup qf hopefully its a lesson learned for the next one
Id love to see mccann in sa hes an absolute monster in what's seemed a bit of a nightmare team to play in for parts this year he could be phenomenal withsome of irelands pack around him
This does seem to be completely forgotten. Farrell capped so many new players.
I did think he would move on more post WC than he has, but I'd say he has an eye on the SA tour and after that maybe a freshening up of the squad. I could be wrong again though.
Would love to see Haley tour to SA as a 15 (option 14). Reckon he's best non-Keenan option at 15.
Well in a weird way I think if Keenan had a long term injury, Haley would have a good shot of getting the 15 shirt outright. He has next to no shot at the 23 shirt though.
Not at this stage if the england rumors are true but maby a year or two ago alright
That ship has sailed i think at this stage
Haley will be 30 next month. Everything else being equal, it wouldn’t be a planning for the future selection.
why would/should it be a problem in a wider (non rwc) squad? i can understand why he wouldnt be in a 23 but there is very little reason to not have him included in the training squads (disregarding that age may now be a factor)
But... eh... bringing a really old starting out half and backup prop is okay… or a starting hooker for the World Cup before that? It's hard to keep up with the goalposts on here sometimes! 🤣
Yeah, those are definitely equivalent examples alright. Irish rugby’s most decorated ever player at prop (and a guy who still right now today in the second best loosehead in the country) and Ireland’s greatest ever player are definitely just the same sort of scenario over picking a guy who might not even be the best full back at Munster?!
But... eh... bringing a really old starting out half and backup prop is okay
I think Haley is worthy of a backup 15 spot if we need it, but this is clearly a ridiculous false dichotomy. Our really old starting out half was an established member of the squad and coming off a world player of the year nomination.
It is never just about the age.
Solid Tuesday whinge, really hitting the classics. If more Munster/ Ulster/ Connacht players want to get picked, they need to outplay their Leinster competition. It's really not complicated.
But yet seems a tad to complicated for you
I agree, it's never just about age, and I am not arguing those players weren't worth their slot… but FFF dismisses Haley being 30 'wouldn't be a planning for the future selection'. If Will Connors is putting his hands up in 2 years time to add to his 9 caps will he be dismissed in a similar fashion I wonder? Will he f**k.
It's a specialist position where we're shoehorning in the likes of Frawley (slow body, fast brain) and Larmour (fast body, slow brain 🤣), Henshaw… did Stockdale try out there?… but let's not pick him this summer or beyond 'cos he's turned 30. Despite he's been arguably the second best 15 in Ireland for a couple of seasons.
I thought Lowry should have also gotten a chance at backup 15 before this season also… beyond his 1 cap… lest I be accused of the usual 🙄. Ulsters woes have dented his hopes at the moment but he's still only 25, he'd want to hurry though - only 5 years left!
but FFF dismisses Haley being 30 'wouldn't be a planning for the future selection'.
Well, to be clear, I don't think Haley will be omitted because of his age, I think he'll be omitted because these Ireland coaches have never shown any interest in him. His age just makes it even less likely they'll take a punt on him.
Henshaw
Henshaw has never played FB under Andy Farrell.
Well, the older a player gets the less likely they are to be brought in for their first cap. Right or wrong, that is just reality. I actually didn't realise he was that old.
I like Lowry but I would be terrified if we ever had to rely on him at 15 in a tough international match.
That being said, I'm no fan of Frawley or Larmour at 15 either.
Deon Fourie bites his thumb at you sir.
Haley was also capped for Ireland at 25/26.
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