Yeah, a ridiculous setup but it has been raised on this thread before tbf.
Only 166 pages of posts, how did I manage to miss that…?
Sorry didn't realise you just dipped in to have a moan, thought you might have been following the thread. Carry on.
Some people do have lives you know. Not like me and Elperello.
There was a discussion about the numbers so far. In my house I have a some bottles which are still full of liquid. I won't be able to get them included in the numbers until they are empty. Obviously that would be the same for some other people.
I also confirmed that the machine I used had more tolerance to the degree of damage on containers than I had expected. The worst thing I saw is that some people deliberately damaged the containers beyond what any machine would process. Or took off the film with the barcode from plastic bottles to render them useless for the machines. It must be some sort of protest against the scheme. Unless this was the way they littered before?
It will be children mostly. Unless the current generation are completely different than when there was a glass bottle deposit. The children used to scour the streets for bottles to get 2 old pence each as I remember. So that will explain why you will get only two in your pickup.
On the subject of children, Greta has no influence with the ones who litter. But her followers will do the right thing.
Got some cans with tiny barcodes, only about half the recommended size and below the minimums by a big margin. And of course they're troublesome. First type of machine I've tried doesn't see the not-officially-a-barcode at all.
Business Post is reporting that the petrol retail trade body has complained to the European Commission. That won't get anywhere, but it might make them feel better.
Interesting development.
In the correspondence to [Eamon]Ryan and [Ossian]Smyth, [Michael]Griffin[CE of IPRA] said the IPRA has “filed complaints with both the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC) in Ireland and with DG Competition at a European level”. In a written response to Griffin, Smyth said the scheme “was developed in an open, fair and transparent manner and the provisions in place ensure the legislative framework for the DRS, and the scheme design, are non-discriminatory against any operator or product being placed on the Irish market”. He added the department noted the complaints made to the CCPC and to the European Commission and is “happy to engage with the competition authorities in relation to your complaints”.
In the correspondence to [Eamon]Ryan and [Ossian]Smyth, [Michael]Griffin[CE of IPRA] said the IPRA has “filed complaints with both the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC) in Ireland and with DG Competition at a European level”.
In a written response to Griffin, Smyth said the scheme “was developed in an open, fair and transparent manner and the provisions in place ensure the legislative framework for the DRS, and the scheme design, are non-discriminatory against any operator or product being placed on the Irish market”.
He added the department noted the complaints made to the CCPC and to the European Commission and is “happy to engage with the competition authorities in relation to your complaints”.
Depends what IPRA do after complaining. The Commission may agree but tell them to take a case here then come back to them if they can prove EU legislation has not been adhered to.
The current generation of children are completely different to when there was a glass bottle deposit.
You'd have to return about 10 undamaged cans to pay for a packet of crisps now. Why would the current generation bother scouring the streets for cans when their parents have a multi pack of crisps in the cupboard they can just dip into?
True I suppose. I see them having food fights and leaving half full bottles of Coke behind them. When I was young a mineral as they were called was a precious luxury.
IPRA complaint seems to be that it is 'anti-competitive' and is possibly 'a restriction on free movement of good'.
https://www.businesspost.ie/news/complaint-lodged-with-european-regulator-over-anti-competitive-deposit-return-scheme/
(Note I can only read first 3 paragraphs of article.)
Second seems a complete non-runner - having to comply with individual country labelling requirements is already a standard and doesn't constitute a restriction. It also affects all suppliers equally.
Not sure how they could swing an ani-competitive angle either.
I remember Irish Water very well. I, and hundreds of thousands of others, marched against the farce that was Irish Water and FG's attempts to privatise the system.
I also remember that there were one or two posters in this thread who were also full on for that particular con job as well. 😉
Well if you are Heineken, none of your share holders are losing sleep over the cost of adding a logo to your cans.
If you are a small craft brewer and have had to pay staff overtime so they can apply stickers manually to cans otherwise you are not able to sell them, it's easy to argue the costs are not the same for all suppliers.
And look at what is ahead of them in 2026. Still I don't think it will be much trouble to them. They often produce special runs and limited editions with bespoke labelling.
Health warning labels
To allow businesses sufficient time to prepare for the change, there is a three-year lead-in time. However, from May 2026, all alcohol products will be legally required to display the following:
And it disproportionately affects smaller markets such as Ireland, where producers are more likely to just not supply to those markets due to the increasing costs.
Yes agreed. It's clearly an easier task to comply for Heineken than for AJ & Son micro brewers. It costs my small company comparatively more.
But crucially that has never been seen as a problem as long as the rules and regulations apply to all equally. My theoretical micro-brewery could have the same issue when I have to include an ingredient list in Croatian or Portuguese when I want to export there, or put Drinken Beeren Responsiblaten on German exports. So you may rail against the unfairness of it, but absolutely nothing to suggest it would be a winning case.
Full article for whoever wants to read it.
The Commission will give the IPRA an idea of where they stand. Like I already stated they may tell IPRA to get a judgement in the member state and come back to them. Id imagine the reason for the label change and the botched implementation of the associated scheme could be relevant.
And if you are Heineken you will be sending big gifts to the Government thanking them for MUP. Price fixing at it's best!
My theoretical micro-brewery could have the same issue when I have to include an ingredient list in Croatian or Portuguese when I want to export there
Yes, but you can decide whether or not to export there. You can plan well in advance and the next time you get cans printed you can add the warnings or the ingredients in Croatian. You are not going to lose money from it.
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/b3f2f-minister-smyth-launches-irelands-deposit-return-scheme/ - Publish date November 2022. That is just 18 months ago.
I was caught out the other day getting a lunch "meal deal" of sandwich, crisps and a drink for €6.95 only to be charged €7.10 at the till.
Is this expected and/or common?
I would really hate if we are going to be like the US where the displayed price isn't what you actually pay due to various taxes.
The deposit should be displayed on the shelf sticker.
The full retail price of the meal + 15 cent deposit.
Do you want to discuss DRS or just use this as a bulletin board for your opinions ?
I want to discuss the DRS with other people who accept the scheme has short comings, not go back and forth constantly with one individual who will defend the scheme at all costs. If you don't want to read my opinions, I advise you to add me to your ignore list.
OK as I thought you don't want to read what I think about DRS.
In the interest of harmony let's leave it at that.
I don't have an ignore list because I find it interferes with the narrative of a thread.
I've read everything you have said about the DRS. If you want to add more, then I am all ears/eyes.
This will need to be sorted by 1st June as we are still in transition: raise it with the consumer watch dog
ask@ccpc.ie
https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/consumers-home/contact/
I think this tax will have the opposite intended effect. Coca Cola have already taken a massive hit in sales over here https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/irelands-deposit-return-scheme-takes-fizz-out-of-coca-cola-k3nmp85b8
What will happen is people will start boycotting plastic bottles and it will really hurt the small business owners, the supermarkets and the suppliers. Can see them either lobbying for an end to this deposit return fiasco or viciously price gouging, either way it’s gonna hurt the working class man much more than it would the upper middle class green voter.
Yeah I think the government should have invested more money into this to give exactly the kind of kids you’re talking about more incentive to actually search for bottles, it should have incentivised profit making at least for the first 6 months. The government despise the homeless and the working class man and profiteering/entrepreneurship. They wouldn’t dare allow them or anyone to somehow make money off this scheme or fund a jobless lifestyle picking up plastic bottles on the streets (the way it is in Germany currently). You should be given real, universal money for returning your bottles but no they want you to pay tax, own nothing and be happy.
In Coca Colas case it is not just the deposit. They cynically at same time as deposits introduced jacked up prices by reducing pack size of cans.
People going to switch to own brand / reduce purchases or go soda stream route.
Those capitalist running dogs want me to pay €12 to read that. I got a few lines from another source. Mid single digits is not a massive hit.
"Sales of Coca-Cola have decreased following the introduction of the deposit return scheme. In a trading update for the first quarter of the year, Coca-Cola HBC, which bottles and sells Coke, Fanta and Monster Energy in 28 countries, said that volumes here “decreased by mid-single digits, as consumers adjusted to the.."
