It's not an unfettered right. You do realise that, don't you? Balancing of competing rights is a pretty basic concept in every democracy and not the most complicated concept to grasp. Or are you just being a contrarian?
I do realise it yes…. A bunch of flag waving nobodies do not strike me as a threat to anything… let them do their thing, and if they brake the law, then come crushing down on them.
” are necessary in a democratic society “
These guys are literally cheering for destruction of democratic society’s waving flags of a state that destroyed everything democratic
” in the interests of national security “
We have an ambassador who repeatedly lied to Irish people on the national news stirring up **** again
” prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others “
Literally wearing uniforms and flags of a terrorist organisation which committed crimes
That’s before we get to the imitation firearms which is possibly a criminal offence in itself
I have greeting cards from the 1920s received by my grandparents and they depict green swastikas everywhere. Back then it was a symbold of good luck and peace.
I believe it goes back to ancient Islamic art.
The woman pictured claims to be an Irish person born of Russian parents. But has been posting anti Ukrainian hatred on social media since the start of this invasion. She's not doing so on her own. Now she's pictured in a Z parade with the russian ambassador. These are not individual nobodies. This a group led from the Russian embassy.
If they are aren't allowed to live here (visas cancelled, not granted for more Russians), this instance of the "paradox of tolerance" (people using rights they have while here to stage an offensive fascist gathering in praise of the Russian military) might go away or at least reduce.
More serious potential problems that could end up taking up a lot of the time of our not very competent and quite badly underresoured police force/intelligence etc. go away too. They can exercise human rights to freedom of expression in Russia.
I didn't say they were individuals, they arranged to meet up, did they break the law? if so pick em up, If not, let them be
That’s for Gardai to determine and prosecute
When IRA marched in Dublin in 2019 they we’re surrounded by police in both uniform and without
These Russians need to be put and kept under a microscope
as for the ambassador he should have been ejected long ago, it might be ok to constantly lie about everything in Russia, but we ain’t Russia (a country where waving EU or western flags would get you murdered or jailed)
The swastika represented something entirely different until the Nazis started using it. You'll notice they (the nazis) turned this symbol 45 degrees for their symbol. I can well remember the Swastika laundry when I was a kid - they had a branch in Fairview.
Are they not allowed to live here?
What do you think would happen if peoples fundamental rights are going to be squashed just because it doesn't fit in with the going narrative?
I have said it to myself plenty of times "if you hate the west and like Russia so much then **** off right back to that shithole" But luckily we live in a place where people are allowed to express themselves without repercussion, and sometimes that flies against everything I believe to be morally right, but "Bigger picture"
That whole Embassy should have been closed from day 1
Supporters of ISIS can be arrested in Ireland. These people are walking a very fine line. They chose to make a spectacle of themselves for reaction. The reaction may very well see Z supporters arrested in future.
Those fundamental rights come with caveats you yourself linked to (but didn’t read)
Supporting a fascist ideology while wearing uniform of a terrorist organisation, that not only would destroy said fundamental rights but has actually already done so in Russia (and other countries) is a rather big caveat no?
I said I did read them….Did you not read my reply ?
Now proceed to read the Irish constitution
BTW the irony of some lecturing others on freedom of speech while supporting those who not only would trample on freedom of speech but already do so… is extreme
They are (permitted to live here) until they aren't.
Visas for the wealthy, free + nice to live in European countries that are under attack from Russia (even if we don't seem to want to admit it or say it out loud here) are not a human or a fundamental right. If the risk for us outweights any benefits, they can and should be taken away imo. It should be treated transactionally, not as some "right".
Now I admit there could be people who are citizens doing this stuff, that is much more of a thorny problem (probably why country should not go handing passports out easily like cornflake box prizes the way we do here…edit: maybe ignore that last, trying not to get sidetracked!).
You cannot express yourself "without repercussion" here either. There are some obligations I think, and freedom of speech is not as absolute as it seems to be in the US. Even without breaking any laws, response of others to your "speech" may not be good.
back to current affairs
A long and complicated history which has bounded many cultures all over the world. In fact, it's interesting how the same symbol has become so universally found.
Korea (Bhuddist).
US Army.
Finnish Air Force
There's also Hindi, persian, chinese and a few other variants. The one place I can't seem to find a precedent for is Australia.
But this is all a bit of a detour.
Here it is on ancient pottery
It’s not the symbol itself that is the problem but what it represents in the modern day, same with the Zwastika which hijacked and perverted the letter Z
Russia and Russians and their clearly fascistic symbols now represent everything that is backwards, hostile and oppressive to civilisation
I haven't a breeze tbh im not a diplomat. Most conflicts end in a negotiated peace when one side has had enough. Trump seems like he is the Russia camp to me so i can only see that as bad for Ukraine if he wins but who knows. I can't see neither Ukraine regaining all their territory or Russia having the weapons or man power to take Kyiv and the rest of the country.
Justin Barrett would love that little machine for his errands
Not if their intention is incitement. Not when you consider Russia's long history of meddling in other nations' internal affairs. None of this can be viewed in isolation, so it's not necessarily a case of simple "freedom of expression" therefore I can say what I like.
It's a bit like your man who drives around the city centre with a "Trump was Right" flag on the back of his motorbike… leave him off. But if you've got a group of people doing the same thing, we're well within our rights to question their motivation and intentions if the context demands it.
Here we're dealing with group of people supporting a war waged by an violently anti-democratic tyrant responsible for undermining the very human rights which democracies - including ours - exist to protect. A man whose modus operandi is to destabilise other democratic nations with the aim of normalising infringements of civil liberties. That needs a close eye kept on it, not a blasé dismissal under the banner of "freedom of expression".
It's nothing to do with anti-Russian sentiment. Quite the opposite in fact. There are people on here cheerleading for the expulsion of Russians in Ireland. Whereas I know at least three Russians well enough to say that they are appalled by Putin and his butchering of individual freedoms in their country. People like those dressing up in support of Wagner terrorists only serve to further drive a wedge between decent Russians in this country and Irish people outraged at the war in Ukraine.
Whats the feeling around here, are the French actually going to send men to the front line or just posturing
Ignoring the fact your "meme" is incredibly stupid, Macron has never once suggested sending French troops to the front line.
Can't ignore the fact that it's incredibly stupid. It really is incredibly stupid.
Not to mention freedom of expression is not limitless. There are restrictions on freedom of speech such as inciting hatred and or violence against protected groups for example.
@Pa ElGrande was claiming 1000 French troops were on the ground in Odessa, do you believe this as well? Where is the hymn sheet you're sharing?
Very much agree with you. If there are Russians here on visas behaving like this then they should have said visa's revoked and sent on their way. If they are actual citizens here then that is a different matter but even then freedom of expression is not limitless and if they have broken our laws in promoting their love for a murdering authoritarian dictatorship then they should be prosecuted for such.
There's nothing stupid about it. It's the opposite in fact. By not ruling out French troops in Ukraine Macron has for the first time amongst Western leaders refused to leash our own responses. It's the exact kind of strategic ambiguity Western leaders need to employ MUCH more of.
Every time we draw a red line in front of ourselves Putin walks right up to it and then begins toeing said line. By refusing to tell Putin exactly what we won't do it gives Putin something to worry about. Poison another western official? Route another cruise missile/Suicide drone across NATO airspace? Sabotage a cable or pipeline? Signal jam our commercial flights? Well f*ck around and find out sir. The hammer might just come down.
Even if Macron has 0 intention of sending in French boots it achieves nothing to tell Putin that he won't. So it's still a good idea.
EDIT: Wasn't sure if you were calling the meme stupid or Macrons statements stupid.
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