Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
If he didn't pick Crowley we wouldn't know whether he was good enough, but the coaches would. And players often break in on the back of injuries, they get their chance and they take it. Thats the case with numerous Irish players. Nash is one of those players who did well when he got his chance but its not a fair comparison with JOB who can play a number of positions across the team, like Frawley. Farrell likes to have guys like that in the squad as it gives him a lot more flexibility with the bench. There are also several players (I'd include some Ulster backs here) that if they played in Leinster they'd be in the Ireland mix more often but I don't think its just because they'd be at Leinster, Id say its because players in Leinster have tended to improve more than players in other provinces as a result of better coaching and being in a more successful environment.
if the metric of not playing well against that NZ XV is why coombes shouldnt be involved, then realistically only deegan, nash and daly should get a chance with the full irish team/squad from those who played that day, since most of the team were fairly rubbish.
so no Osborne. or Hume. or Stockdale. or Frawley. or Casey. or Loughman. or O'Toole. or McCarthy. or Prendergast. or Timoney
thats ruling out alot of players tbh
The EU has nothing to do with JIFF status.
You can be Fijian and JIFF or Italian and non-JIFF and for French teams the former is more useful as it doesn't use up a space reserved for foreign players.
You're conflating things again. The quote I'm "hammering" you for is the following:
Coombes isn't able to do what Farrell wants.
It's a subtle difference but isn't at all the same thing, and completely overlooks any injury context / absence of the incumbents.
Take Jack Conan; initially not making 23's. Eventually got his chance because of an injury. Was he unable to do what Farrell wanted prior to that, but suddenly was when he got his chance thru an injury elsewhere?
Of course not.
yeah exactly, they needed a way to develop talent in France but couldn’t limit it to French players
Toulon both denying Frisch has signed and rubbishing the salary he isn't on because he's totally not signed, if you'd believe them.
https://www.blog-rct.com/le-rc-toulon-dement-la-signature-dantoine-frisch-et-le-salaire-devoile/#:~:text=Aussi%2C%20le%20m%C3%A9dia%20Britannique%20annon%C3%A7ait,publi%C3%A9%20par%20le%20club%20Toulonnais.
I remember some WhatsApp conversations at the time with kiwi mates back home and here that JGP might be lucky and get a few caps off the bench once he qualified but there was no way he was getting ahead of Murray 😂 This was 2016 remember.
Lowe was a regular in the Maori team whereas JGP was a back up at best if I remember correctly. Lowe did get talked about as a possible AB call up but I think his lack of pace would have held him back from being a regular.
Not sure why people think Coombes isn't been given a chance and if he was dropped into the team he would suddenly be transformed,
But people aren't saying he would be suddenly transformed. People are saying they think he could play to a level we've seen from him plenty of times.
That's certainly the argument I was making around 2022 when Conan had a drop in form and Coombes was playing exceptionally well.
You want everyone to agree that the Irish coaching, including POC, have a vendetta against any player who doesn't play for Leinster, never mind all the times they have picked players from other provinces, brought them into squad etc etc.
Here's a question; is it possible to acknowledge Leinster players may have an easier path to the Ireland squad because of cohesion / familiarity with others etc without it being Leinster bias / a vendetta?
Again, you’re deliberately construing a statement in exactly the way that suits your own agenda - no matter how much clarification I give - to make me look like a guy who hates Munster.
It’s bizarre.
Will that's strange because he is quoted as saying his lifelong ambition was to play for France because he is French. He went on to say that it was French team posters on his wall as a boy.
Playing for Ireland was a plan b by some distance.
Look, I'm happy to leave it at that, FFF.
I genuinely do think fair play to you for coming back under the same username. I just think you get the tenor of some of your posts with regards Munster, and their fans, very wrong sometimes.
I think kiwi fans are so used to players heading overseas for money that they would have just shrugged their shoulders and moved on. ABs and Wallabies were heading to the NH back in the 80s in the off season and it wasn't for the love of the game.
Once it went openly professional, the joke was players would go north to build their pension, then was guys who borderline or average Super Rugby players and everyone thought "well he has to earn a living", then it became fringe ABs and the thoughts became "hold on, that's not good" and now it's current ABs and it "holy **** we have to do something". Its damaged the depth in NZ rugby massively. Ireland should beware. But what's the solution?
I remember Lowe's pace getting a mention, and wasn't there some concern about some health-issue that he has put to bed since?
EDIT: Found it since, arthritis when a teenager, article is a good read. You hear stories like this occasionally, or John Ryan's struggles with ulcerative colitis / IBD and realise it's important to remember the person behind the player…
https://www.irishtimes.com/health/your-family/2023/03/20/james-lowe-i-know-arthritis-affects-you-physically-but-there-was-no-way-i-felt-this-was-going-to-stop-me-one-bit/
I thought Osborne was one of the better Irish players that day.
Yeah some form of arthritis i think. Which is one of the reasons he moved. Didn't know how long he had left in the game so took the big pay day. Fair play to him.
So the IRFU employ NIQ 140 players to play for the provinces but can't field a team in the 6n?
Like any business, you employ people qualified to do the job that you need them for, so for the IRFU they need to employ the majority of pro players who are eligible for the national team.
I remember at the time the consensus was that JGP moving to Leinster and being replaced by Jamie booth was totally a win in the favour of the hurricanes.
Jamie booth...... 😁😁
and I think you deliberately and relentlessly misrepresent me to make it look that way. so I did a search of my own
Funny you didn’t quote the post where I said (in direct reply to you the last time we did this dance)
I think Coombes is good enough to make the 33-man RWC squad. If you can point me to where I've said otherwise, please do.
I think Frawley needs a bit of luck or some really strong performances in training to make the 33-man RWC squad.
So, maybe if you’d bookmarked that one, in which I express my own opinion that was complimentary of the Munster guy rather than the post (correctly, btw) observing what Farrell would do but framing it as Munster bashing, the conversation would be different - but you didn't, did you? So maybe my tenor isn’t the issue.
But yeah, let’s leave it there.
i thought he was fine tbh, but even taking him off the list i think the point still stands
So he is good enough to make the 33-man RWC squad, but isn't good enough to do what Farrell asks of him? Make that make sense.
Yeah. Fair point. I was thinking the same thing actually before I saw your reply.
Back to about 40 posts ago (Squad Update)
Liam Coombes back training, probably too late in the season for him now but I'd love to see him getting a run of games.
Gleeson back too, again probably too late in the east for him but great to see him back.
I thought you were leaving it there.
But ok.
One is my personal opinion of the player. I think he’s a very good player who’s unlucky to be in a very competitive position.
The other is an observation of what is actually happening in real life. He isn’t being picked for Ireland squads. This isn’t metaphysics like, we don’t need to rupture the space time continuum for opinion and fact to coexist. Coombes went from getting caps to being a training squad regular to being outside the squad completely. I cannot understand why it’s controversial to suggest that whatever he’s doing isn’t what the Ireland coaches want from him. It very clearly isn’t and he had lots of opportunities to show them he could do it, but to no avail. Those are the facts.
But - going back to my own personal opinion - he’s good enough that he’ll get another chance soon enough. Maybe the tour to SA, very likely the Autumn, and then who knows?
is it possible to acknowledge Leinster players may have an easier path to the Ireland squad because of cohesion / familiarity with others etc without it being Leinster bias / a vendetta?
This question keeps coming up but its impossible to prove a negative. The onus is on those proposing a theory that it has validity, not on those claiming 'there's no evidence for that' to prove there's no evidence. It might not be a Leinster bias but without any evidence its a bias against the coaches, and its basically a conspiracy theory unless you can point to a player or ex player or coach who says, I was told I didn't get a place on the Ireland team because a lesser player plays in Leinster and that's was what the coaches felt was more important. This is a faith based feeling some posters have, that's all. Playing the victim because people are calling out a conspiracy theory...
As I am sure you are aware it was just an example of him getting game time. He has since been called into multiple squads but hasn't progressed
Coombes is just the latest in a long line of players that Munster fans massively rate and when they are not picked for Ireland it's claimed bias etc etc as a reason not to pick the player.
In reality as I pointed out before the main person Coombes will be dealing with is Paulie, so claiming Leinster bias doesn't really wash. Maybe Ireland has better players in that position?
In terms of the list of players, not really a who-who of stars for Ireland since, big Joe is only real would you can claim has kicked on.
It's just noise from disgruntled fans that their pet favourite isn't getting selected. Hansen and Crowley etc all blow the so called easy route for Leinster players to pieces. But Im sure you will come up with another nonsense reason why it doesn't.
Even to get into the leinster team with the squad they have is a huge challenge let alone saying the players have an easy path into the Ireland squad. If Penny/Deegan etc was in Munster the same posts would be about them. Is Coombes better than either of them?
Penny? is he better than him?
Gleeson I expect to jump Coombes etc and push into the Ireland team in the next 12 months.
If the coach thinks you are good enough you are in
Coombes & frisch were both looked at & for whatever reason Farrell has decided not to go with them so far.
Maybe they don't have the right attitude, who the fcuk knows.
Can we move on from RWC winner,Healy to Scotland & the above 2, its been done to death
Expecting much change for the Connacht game?
i hope the break hasn't stalled the great momentum of SA tour
I expect Gleeson to be an international in a couple of years. He may put Doris on the bench.
I don't think he will put Doris on the bench, I think you will find a backrow with both of them in it. Doris has shown so far he is versatile enough to play 6,7,8
If anything they seem to be priming Doris as Leinster/Ireland captain material
Frisch and Coombes have better players in front of them
Shock horror but that is what I would suggest is the reason
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