Following on from
this thread
Please remain civil or posting privileges will be removed
Yes, it is, in the real world. Fleeing an active war zone is the easiest way to have an asylum cliam approved in Ireland currently. To quote the Irish Immigration Advice Service:
"Claiming asylum in Ireland can be a complex process, depending on your circumstances. It is relatively easy to get asylum if your home country is at war or undergoing severe armed conflicts.
In other cases, proving that your life and freedom are at risk in your country of origin can be a challenging task, especially if you are on your own."
That aside, the original intentions of the 1951 UN convention system were to provide asylum for people who desperately needed it - those fleeing war zones. That UN convention was in response to the hodgepodge mess of response that was forced to deal with the millions of post-world war two refugees in Europe.
Its provisions were never meant to be used by people moving from, for example at peace, safe, Georgia to Ireland for economic reasons. Especially not when they have to cross multiple safe countries to do so.
These people are quite literally abusing the system, but our government has for years completely ignored the problem and failed to deal with it. Its yet another example of rank incompetence and the chickens are finally coming home to roost.
Hmmm, first she pulls out of the Garda conference, now the British Irish conference just after Stormont has resumed. Instead of throwing the toys out, maybe rise above it and use your dialogue and powers of negotiation? You know, "politics". Harris, it was an own goal when you became Taoiseach and you missed the ball.
I would disagree,simply because its only become evident in the last year that the doubling or trebling of numbers that 'Rwanda' must have caused
Prior to that numbers werent an issue
Plus we didnt have the 100,000 Ukranians here making the foreign influx more noticeable in terms of faces voices and housing problems
What in blue blazes are these African people thinking Anyway? Theres nothing here for them bar protests,tents,cold rain and if as in the majority of cases that will be rejected,no 30 euros a week in treasure either
When is the State going to remove these illegal tents on Mount Street. They are spreading to adjacent streets at this point.
That aside, the original intentions of the 1951 UN convention system were to provide asylum for people who desperately needed it - those fleeing war zones.
It wasn't though. I have literally quoted from it above. It was about people facing persecution, not war.
It is explicitly not for people moving for economic reasons, no. But you can't just call a country "safe" because it is not at war. It is about whether it is safe for that individual.
It doesn't matter about definitions anymore. This government wants to stop them coming here.
You claimed fleeing a war zone wasn't the easiest way to qualify for asylum in Ireland. I posted a direct quote from a relevant source showing the opposite. Which would suggest your knowledge of the Irish asylum system is rather flawed.
Its also extremely common knowledge that the 1951 UN Convention was heavily influenced, and designed in reponse to, the post WW2 refugee situation in Europe. The UN's own website itself states:
"Initially, the 1951 Convention was more or less limited to protecting European refugees in the aftermath of World War II"
https://www.unhcr.org/sites/default/files/legacy-pdf/4ec262df9.pdf
Which would suggest you should also probably do more reading on that topic too.
Terrible day for the government. Sunak has told Ireland to eff off.
He makes a very good point though. France are clearly doing very little to prevent crossings. It impacts us eventually.
No evidence to say these people are coming here due to the Rwanda policy.
They've been coming through the border for years.
What an own goal by the government. Their attempt to blame Britain has massively backfired.
The other option is to close the border with Northern Ireland after Brexit
Would that be classed as an "own goal" as well?
This isn't about Brexit.
Helen McEntee made dubious and questionable claims about asylum seekers coming here through the border.
Even Michael Martin has just questioned the figures.
The Irish government gave the Tories an extra 3% for their local elections.
So the border with Northern Ireland which was left open after Brexit for a load of reason, you now claim isn't about Brexit
What a load of waffle
If the border was shut down you would be shouting and roaring about it.
No he has told the farce of a government we have to eff off.
And you know what I and a very sizable chunk of our population agree with him.
Having a meeting with Helen the halfwit (I am copyrighting that name BTW as it is so completely apt) is about as much use as talking to a chimp in Dublin zoo about quantum physics.
The problem is for every bad day this government have they will give us Irish people many bad days.
I'd say alot of in fighting between FFG and also their own individual parties
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/tanaiste-says-80-figure-for-asylum-seekers-from-ni-not-based-on-evidence-1619251.html
Helen McEntee in big trouble if these figures turn out to be rubbish which I suspect they are. Michael Martin says the figueres aren't based on evidence. I can see a cabinet split here.
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0429/1446400-migration-figure/
So the government should have shut down the border with Northern Ireland during the negotiations?
What are you on about ? Brexit negotiations thread are 5 years old.
So which do you want, border open or closed?
You said the below.
So tell us all should the government shut the border down?
I didn't say anything about closing the border.
Whom do we think will be the sacrifice for the $hit show, ROG or McEntee? I think someone will be made take the blame and fall on their sword
Simon Harris honeymoon is over. I think the vast majority want McEntee to leave the government due to her obvious incompetence but clearly ministers in Ireland need to be forced out.
If you want to make a few yoyo's head down to your local turf accountant in the morning and put 50euros on McEntee to be out of the Justice Department by Friday.
Fine, I will acknowledge that if fleeing a warzone is truly the easiest way to get asylum in Ireland than we have most likely incorrectly implemented the convention on refugees. I suspect it is a function of it being the easiest thing to prove whereas specific persecution is harder.
Again, in the aftermath of WW2 in Europe there was no active war zone. The Convention was designed to protect individuals and groups fleeing persecution, not masses of population fleeing warzones. I have you the definition of a refugee in the convention and "fleeing a conflict" is not even mentioned. It is very specifically focused on those who have to flee for specific reasons. Ukrainians are not in Ireland as refugees for example, they were just given special migrant status. The Convention was top stop scenarios such as no one letting in jews fleeing Nazi Germany, and to deal with the huge numbers of displaced people following post-war ethnic cleansing in Eastern Europe.
This all boils back down to the idea that because a country is not at war it is somehow "safe". That is not what the Convention is aimed at.
Our Supreme Court made a ruling that the UK wasn't a safe country so its no wonder Sunak basically told Harris and Martin to do one now that they wanted to send the migrants back.
The Government are looking like idiots they way they are handling this.
McEntee attempted to shift blame to the UK but it has spectacularly backfired. Her 80% figure seems like something she made up on the spot.
Incredible that she's a senior minister.
"Our Supreme Court made a ruling that the UK wasn't a safe country"
No they didn't. Don't get your news from Twitter.
With a bit of luck it would be a double edged sword and takes them both out together.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck !
Not from twitter?
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/03/22/irelands-declaration-of-uk-as-safe-third-country-unlawful-rules-high-court/
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irelands-declaration-of-uk-as-safe-third-country-is-unlawful-high-court-rules-1605217.html
So someone got there courts wrong when typing?
