All part of the plan lads.
I have used this return nonsense a few times, and would estimate that 75-85% of my items are cans and not plastic. It's not only plastic involved here. In my household there are 2 tech workers and a teenage gamer, that's a lot of monster cans being returned!
Jesus ****ing wept!!! 700,000 in a day… if thats even close to usage patterns it's catastrophic. We need to stop using plastic!
Crushed or shredded, if the machines are working properly. Lidls fragile messes seem to be inconsistent on that.
Re-turn collect them, although shops can/do swap them out between collections.
"Uptime" must mean not switched off, of course as the majority of us have discovered switched on does not equal operational.
We did 2.1 million containers last Saturday in 700,000 transactions that’s 700,000 successful and seamless transactions.”
He was obviously present for all of them.
Unfortunately we are going to have to put up with years of this absolute scutter PR talk where blame is fired in every direction but the scheme.
He is blaming the retailers this week, they don't know when to empty the bin apparently.
Yeah, I found his use of the term 'seamless transaction' unusual. If someone has to put a bottle in 3 times for it to be accepted it's not a seamless transaction.
There's no guarantee the pellets will actually be recycled, especially in the case of PET.
Re-turn cannot guarantee they will be recycled, if there do not recycle anything themselves.
True or false?
So where does Re-turn guarantee that all items collected will be actually recycled?
If you are going to make such statements of fact, the onus is on you to support it.
genuine question, when the bottle goes down the chute of the machine, does it get crushed? And then dropped into a bin?
who collects the bins?
Article also says
We did 2.1 million containers last Saturday in 700,000 transactions that’s 700,000 successful and seamless transactions
It's hard to believe these are seamless transactions based on reports here and other places.
I haven't had issues with using the machines apart from having to queue to use them. That is hardly seamless when people said there wouldn't be queues.
I'm just quoting what he said, people can believe it if they want. I'd like to see how they define uptime though.
100%
Also a big problem is the machines not even being opened DURING the shops operating hours
Yeah clearly you don't know what happens after your product goes into the machine… What actually happens is the cans and bottles get crushed and melted into aluminium and PET pellets. Manufacturers then take these pellets and use them to create new cans and PET bottles.
It will in time help us determine recycling stats. I suspect we will know by this time next year if it's actually been a success or not. Talk of recycling plants being able to be opened if the recycling lines are more viable
Nobody is saying "screw the minorities" either, that's a gross exaggeration of what I said
No it isn't.
We already had those other taxes.
This is Green Theatre, a bean counting exercise to make it look like we are doing something for the environment.
Not sure there can be an 86% uptime in machines when a large percentage of machines are locked inside a closed shop for the best part of 10 hours a day.
Like anyone believes that. Pic is lidl on aungier St, Always has one out of order
The machines have had an 86% uptime according to Ciaran Foley in the Irish Times. He reckons European average is 90% to 95%.
But the producers and retailers, who have set up and are running this scheme, have no interest in reducing amount of containers or changing buying habits. They have no interest in making their products massively more expensive. 15c looks like its something, but it's small enough that very few consumers will be put off buying a product on that basis.
This is nothing more than performative action. Making it look like they are doing something while really just protecting themselves from likely government intervention and regulations that would require them to actually change.
They can now claim that Y amount is being collected, which will ignore that X amount was already collected via green bins. Any failure to reach the targets will then be blamed on lack of consumer engagement rather than looking at the core issue. That of the products being sold in the first place. So the fault is the consumer rather than the producer.
If you want to make people think twice about buying that bottle or can add an additional 1-2 euro tax on top. No need for a convoluted scheme to make people think twice about buying something.
No. It is designed to make people think twice about buying that bottle or can. And if they really need to they pay a deposit and get it back when they return the bottle. 25c is a waste of time
The cans are worth money, one would assume they are sold on to whomever pays most, most likely recycled as it is much cheaper and efficient to recycle this material. One would assume the PET bottles are sold to whomever pays most or disposed off in the lease costly manner whether that be the local incinerator or the international recycler who really knows.
Again, this scheme doesn't help us determine recycling stats and in fairness isn't gonna help us with collections stats either if people continue to use their own recycle bins or chose not to engage with the scheme.
But sure lookit, it's all fine. Screw the minorities, screw the people who have done the right thing over the years and as for the rest of the population, screw them as well.
Aren't we great.
You fail to mention what happens to the bottles and cans after collection?
It really is a solution in search of a problem. Re-reading the first few pages of the thread is edifying. All of the problems called out in advance.
This is called the deposit return scheme. It's primary aim is to better measure the amount of "returned" items versus purchased items in order to reach an EU imposed ninety percent return rate.
This scheme does nothing to ensure all items are recycled nor does the scheme in any overall context have any concerns outside of return rates.
This is not a Reduce, Reuse or Recycle scheme - it is simply a return scheme.
These are simple facts.
Collected and Recycled are not the exact same.
I really question your stance on all of this.
Most of it is burned - about 95%- unfortunately. Poland is a big user for cement factories. If you think about it- what could they do with all that potentially contanimated mixed plastic types. ItS not like metal or glass which does recycle indefinitely.
Lots online about it recently…
In fairness, the early days of "recycling" meant shipping it all off to China, where God knows what happened to it. Now that avenue is closed, I think what happens is a bit more transparent and a fair amount is actually recycled. But, I'd be amazed if at times, significant chunks of "recycled" waste doesn't end up in an incinerator somewhere in Europe. All we as householders are doing is separating our waste, and at that only partially. We aren't recycling anything.
How can Re-turn guarantee that items will actually be recycled when it doesn't recycle any items?
It can't commit to something outside of its control.
So basically there are no new taxi licences available only wheelchair accessible taxi licences? That's only going to put pressures on new taxi drivers that we so desperately need. I accept this is probably a discussion for another thread which I will endeavor to find in due course
Sorry for the confusion. I use the term "recycled" because when the goods get collected by the recycling company they then go to recycling facilities, to be recycled. In the terms of this scheme a collected bottle or can will eventually be recycled, therefore in this instance "collected" is the exact same as "recycled"
You are correct however because in other contexts recycling and collecing are not the same thing. For example if I collect my child from school, I haven't recycled him from school
I hope this makes sense to you
i agree with a lotvof your post and it absolutely should have been thought out properly . But comparing it to Germany is not quite right . I lived in Germany for years and they are a very compliant people , they abide by rule’s because its a rule . They wait silently for the green man to cross the road even if there no traffic on the horizon ! They park as they are supposed to park and recycle religiously as asked to
I teach my grandchildren how to recycle and reuse and repair and that needs to be taught be it by parents or schools etc
They work in Germany because over time it became the norm. Simply saying that they don't work here is the wrong approach. Set up the segregated bins. Of course, you will get lots of people simply putting rubbish into any of the bins but over time their friends, family etc will start to push them to be more careful. It won't happen overnight, but the long-term change in culture is worth it.
This is why the rollout of this scheme is so maddening. All of these problems were not only easily foreseeable, other places like Germany had already been through them and found solutions.
They should have blitzed this from the start. All producers and retailers should have been forced to bring all stock up to compliance by the start date. Having some cans returnable and some not only makes the scheme seem crazy. Yes, you would have had an amount of returns bought before returned but take that as a cost to get the scheme going.
The machines should be serviced and maintained such that the level of downtime is a minimum. Train certain staff members to be the point of contact in each store, such that they can handle almost all customer issues. This would take resources of course but well worth it to ensure that the rollout was as painless as possible.
Have the machines future-proof from the start, ie with card/apple pay etc. payout. None of this voucher stuff, and having to queue up in the store to get your change. Leave that as an option, for there are many who don't use cards etc, but the entire retail industry has been pushing for cashless for years and yet they bring this in and we are back to printed vouchers and having to queue up for a refund!
Were consumer groups even involved in the process? Seems to me a lot of decisions have been taken which massively favour the producers and retailers and place all the responsibility and effort on the consumer.
Why haven't they worked here is the question, and how could they work here - what needs to be tweaked etc?
Surely those are questions that need to be asked.
I know for a fact it is almost impossible to find ones in the areas I frequent - that'd be a good reason for them not working.
