You continue to say that it is a huge problem and that you want it changed but at the same time you claim that you don't want Leinster 'dragged back'.
That is absolutely impossible and at this stage you know it full well by the fact you aren't even able to suggest one solution that would even scratch the surface of a huge inequality.
Come on, just be honest. Even if you want there to be, in the real world there isnt a magical solution that can cover you talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Aside from the "annoying politician tactic, flames of resentment, magical solution, the gem of…" digs, you keep saying things like "claim to exist".
It's objectively true to point out the Central Contracts will be the most imbalanced they've ever been, by an order or magnitude, come next season. That's not a claim. It's a fact.
Mod: Can we leave the Kleyn talk, it's been done to death. There's a dedicated Kleyn NIQ thread if people want to discuss it further.
Good example of outcome bias. SA selected Kleyn as 4th choice lock. They won the World Cup therefore Ireland should have selected Kleyn. Also by the same token Ireland should travel to the next tournament with one hooker and a flanker/hooker hybrid (VDF can do that job) and start a 10 who can’t kick. We should also start with a 7-1 split. Here’s a simple fact, we exited the RWC at the QF again, SA won two RWCs in a row. Q.E.D.
again, a bizarre scenario. We have more players than we can use and people hate the national coach and team for it
I didn't bring him up at all, at all, so why ask me.
I'm just commenting on the posters who told us that wouldn't play for SA now down playing his actual game time, more so, his game time in the final. As if subs time in any game should be discounted.
So you're just using that most annoying politician tactic:
and?
He isn't an Irish player, he played for SA and good for him. As you admit he wouldn't even get selected if he was available now so why is he even brought up?
let’s just all agree to disagree and cheer on the success of each others provinces!
A player not good enough for Ireland ends up playing for another Tier 1 country.
Only on boards.ie could it be a bad thing that we have too many good players.
Yes that's probably true
He's another simple fact, we exited the RWC at the QF again, SA won two RWCs in a row.
Here's another simple fact, Kleyn played in the final too, despite a few "experts" here telling us all he wouldn't make the squad.
He was available for Ireland for 4 years and never made a squad.
If he was available now, he still wouldn't be selected.
He had a decent season last year, before that when he came up against the top clubs he never commanded the position. Even last year has he ever made a big difference in a game v Leinster? even when playing against the URC team
Others have pointed out the minutes he played in WC, it is great for him and I wish him well for his WC win and hope he is back playing soon. Is he a loss to Ireland? no IMO
Simple fact is if Kleyn was still available for Ireland he wouldn't be selected for Ireland
You should read the post. You said Ireland shouldn't care about the 6 nation results in the quest to win a WC, without the 6 nations you don't have to worry about a WC
Why should we pick players in other countries when we have the best players in Ireland?
The plan you seem to have come up is force players to leave Ireland and go to UK/France. Then when they are playing in another country select those players. Why not keep them in Ireland and select them playing for the provinces?
By forcing them to leave Ireland you are making the provinces weaker, the teams they are playing stronger. Plus you are making Ireland weaker because they will not be available outside of the international windows
Every union is jealous of the setup Ireland has and you want to throw it away, saying you wouldn't mind losing 6 nation games. Which pays for rugby in Ireland. What exactly is the point of all of this? just to make Leinster players move(the list of players you gave all happened to play for Leinster)
I agree, it’s gas to see the hoops some posters will jump through. You’d think Jean Kleyn was the South African Dupont on here sometimes. He’s a decent player and hopefully he manages to get back from his eye issue which sounds concerning to me. Even now, I don’t think Farrell would be starting him ahead of Ryan, McCarthy and Beirne. There’s an argument that he’d be vying with Iain Henderson as a squad depth player given Henderson’s recent form.
But Jean Kleyn won a World Cup I hear some say. So did Marvin Orie. I wouldn’t be picking him for Ireland either.
..
The talent that Ulster have in the backs in particular has been utterly wasted over the last 4ish years. Doak, McCloskey, Hume, Lowry, Mcllroy, Baloucoune, Stockdale. Those are all guys who at one stage would've been in the conversation as being the best in their position in the country, or having shown the potential to be. Criminal how badly managed and coached they've been.
Indeed! Underachieving in my opinion.
Go ahead. Ask away.
That's absolutely fine, and he's right - the other provincial branches should be looking to see if there are things they can learn and emulate from Leinster, both in terms of player development and on the business side of things.
But Exeter (and the Prem) obviously don't have a remit that extends to the other Provinces; the IRFU do.
I think it's reasonable that the IRFU should consider if the imbalanced nature of the central contracts now could have ramifications to the other provinces or more broadly, rather than just telling the provinces you need to "look to ways [you] can get to that level of competition with them’."
Its gas the hoops some posters will jump just to be right.
Kleyn won't get capped by SA
Kleyn won't play in the RWC
Kleyn won't play in the bigger games in the RWC
Kleyn only played 20 mins in the RWC Final, a final that SA won
There's a ton of Irish player that would love to be able to say they played 20 min in a RWC final, not to mind playing in one that they won.
He was key for them in that tighthead lock role.
was he?
He didn't feature in the 23 for either the QF or SF, and got 20 minutes off the bench in the final. He didn't feature against Scotland and got 30 minutes off the bench against Ireland (which they lost).
Fair play to Kleyn but as a stick to beat Andy Farrell with, it's pretty weak.
Rob Baxter has a refreshing, and reasoned opinion on the matter...
Exeter boss Rob Baxter insists the Gallagher Premiership should aim to match Leinster’s ambition by developing their own ‘Fortnum and Mason’ recruitment policy. The Irish province have pulled off a major coup by signing New Zealand’s brilliant centre Jordie Barrett while in the prime of his career as he has agreed a short-term deal for next season. Baxter believes the 27-year-old’s sabbatical is valuable for European rugby and wants the English top flight to also become an appealing destination for overseas stars.
“It makes you a bit jealous that you’re not working in Leinster’s recruitment department!” Baxter said. “I know (former Saracens, Sale and Worcester director of rugby) Steve Diamond once said it depends what shop you go shopping in: is it Waitrose or is it Aldi?”
Referencing an upmarket London department store, Baxter continued: “It might be Fortnum and Mason depending on how you want to look at it! “If Irish rugby, Leinster and the United Rugby Championship can get their house in order to allow them to invest in players, their programme and their coaches like they do, you have to say fair play.
“My response would be, ‘let’s not try to say it’s not fair and limit Leinster, let’s look to ways we can get to that level of competition with them’. “You can look around and say, ‘let’s stop everyone else doing it because we can’t do it’. Or you go, ‘what are they doing to develop that level of interest and finance and why can’t we do it?’. “I don’t think it’s bad for these competitions to have world-class players. What we want to find out is ways that we can do it as well. “You have to work to make the competition look attractive and the way the game is played look attractive. “To get that deal in place to sign a player you have to get a lot of financial bits and pieces right – and that runs right from the top of the game to the bottom in the country. “There’s a lot we have to do to get to that level, but why shouldn’t we be aiming for it? That’s what we should be trying to do.” The Premiership has defied its critics by supplying two teams to the Investec Champions Cup semi-finals in Northampton and Harlequins, with Leinster and Toulouse completing the line-up. Baxter believes that has been managed even though the league has temporarily been reduced to a “developing competition” due to the financial implications of the pandemic and lack of funds in the English game. “Two sides in the semi-finals is obviously fantastic. We want to expose the Premiership to as many new viewers as we can, for obvious reasons. Whether we make it a regular occurrence, that’s the challenge,” the director of rugby said. “The Premiership is expected to be a developing competition again. We’ve had to do a lot of things around Covid and the financial situation in the country. “We’ve had to make some adjustments but we will hope as a competition that we will regrow ourselves over the coming period as well.”
"Ireland also targets to win the WC, they have said that for the last 2 World Cups, that doesn;t mean you bankrupt the IRFU trying to achieve it"
Yes you did!
I didn't say we stop players leaving. I just said we need to allow the Irish coach to pick players who are playing in other countries.
Rassie did not pick Kleyn as soon as he was eligible - his last cap for Ireland was Oct 12th 2019 (against Samoa), so he was eligible for SA from October 2022 onwards (the birthright transfer rules were passed from the start of 2022).
SA picked a squad after that to tour Europe (and an A squad) and Rassie selected 7 locks ahead of him at that juncture: Eben Etzebeth, Franco Mostert, Lood de Jager, Jason Jenkins, Salmaan Moerat, Marvin Orie and Ruan Nortje.
Lood de Jager was an ever-present for SA in the 4 years preceding the RWC, and it is fairly safe to say that absent his heart ailment which kept him out of rugby for an extended time, that Jean Kleyn wouldn't have been selected ahead in the RWC either.
JameJames ryan dosent stand out either its the nature of the role.
Your not really giving him his due with thr injured player comment rassie picked him as soon as he was eligable and has fairly consistently sung his praises. He was key for them in that tighthead lock role. I find it hard to think you can honestly see what hes done and say hed be of no benefit to us
Like the player x vs y conversations hard in general because what you see is subjective. It really cant be with him any more though if your being honest
I've said earlier I don't know what the solution is, and that it's not an easy problem to fix. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem.
Yeah, but fans should focus their ire for the lack of central contracts at their own provinces appropriately - at their own player progression pathways.
I genuinely have no idea from this what your proposed solution to the central contract disparity is from your multiple posts on the topic.
If I were a Leinster fan, I'd wonder where the hell all my silverware was.
You naughty boy, Dub.
This is the part, Ulster players are not improving, they seem to be going backwards. Bala went on the EI tour and was around the Irish squad, now he isn't even in the picture. That's not Leinster fault. Similar to other players in Ulster.
Doak at this stage should be banging the door down on the Irish squad, I really rate him but has he improved in the last 15 months?
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