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PV+battery with change over switch

SodiumCooled

Hi, Just a few questions to help with my understanding on this. My solar installer as an add on option of a change over switch (and its not cheap) to allow off grid use during a power cut. However I have already allowed for a change over switch as part of my electrical installation with a generator hook up so my switch will allow switching between mains and generator.

I asked the rep can I operate off grid using this and he said no that I would need a second change over switch but to me this doesn't make sense. Unless I am mistaken all the PV install would be on the consumer side so once I switched to the generator port then this would switch away from grid and isolate the system making it safe to use the solar? I guess the only possible issue is how does the system know I "changed over".

Alternatively since the PV I assume drops when it no longer senses the grid supply based on a CT clamp? If the CT clamp was placed on the output of the change over switch rather than input wouldn't that allow the generator to trick the system into running which would still be beneficial since the generator would not have to work as hard plus probably a bit better for sensitive electronics. Only issue there would be ensuring no back feeding into the generator I guess.

Any feedback or alternatives would be interesting to help my understanding, thanks.

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10-10-20

The issue is that unlike a true fuel powered generator, the inverter's AC input needs to be isolated off the house-supply so that if you were to attach a gen-set or even the output of the inverter's gen port that you wouldn't be back-feeding the inverter with it's own AC waveform. So a rudimentary change-over switch would not suffice, as I understand it you'd need a proper ATS wired up like so:

The inverter will isolate or power off once the voltage or frequency start to slide out of the prescribed limits and this is done at the inverter input side and not at the CT. The inverter would then "know" on the basis of having no valid voltage at the required frequency on the AC in, but would see and be powered-from the battery voltage.

SodiumCooled

Thanks for the explanation. Sorry if I am mixing things up a but wouldn't my change over switch come before that first MCB meaning the inverter would be fed from a generator? Or is that wiring diagram specific to the ATS?

10-10-20

Well my first comment was going to ask for a circuit diagram... that's only how we'll know. Don't want to be assuming at all here.

SodiumCooled

It's a new build so wires are run but nothing terminated yet but my understanding on how the CoS will be wired is that that the main tails from the meter go to the CoS first and then onto the consumer unit. I wouldn't have thought solar installers would have any part in touching the main electrical installation so would only be working on the consumer unit side hence my comment?

To clarify the solar install "first fix" hasn't been done yet.

There is two parts really to my question - the first was if I can run the system the second is there potential issues I could cause by adding the generator to the mix.

10-10-20

Ah, so this isn't in situ already for an existing gen-set - ok understood. Then it's not obvious to me why you'd need an additional change-over switch unless they assumed that you had two independent sources. Might be one to post in the Electrical forum.

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022083#Comment_122022083

Thanks and apologies I should have clarified its a new build in the opening post.

SodiumCooled

So just to update on this in case it’s useful for anyone else. Having spoken with the solar installers electrician a week or two back the fairly simple solution to this is to cascade two change over switches. One will switch between gene and solar and the second between the first change over switch and esb. A second cable run from the inverter to the consumer unit was all that was really needed to implement this.

With the gene running it will charge the battery also.

corglass

Any pics?

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122086676#Comment_122086676

It’s not done yet, will be a few months away as not ready for second fix yet - just cabling has been run at this point.

when I say second run from the inverter location to the consumer unit this will be the “off grid” output from the inverter that will go into the first change over switch with the generator.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122086220#Comment_122086220

Yeah, thanks for the update, appreciated.

CormacSt

Hi there, have you installed the changeover switch yet, any photos would be great.

I've had solar and batteries for about a year and now want to install a manual changeover switch. Being quoted €750. Do you mind sharing what your's ended up costing?

I already have a genni/grid switch and would like the same setup you described "cascade two change over switches. One will switch between gene and solar and the second between the first change over switch and esb"

Thanks

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123581809#Comment_123581809

Hi, yes I have my change over switches installed. First one changes between grid and off-grid and second between generator and solar. Cost wise the main changeover between grid and off grid was installed and supplied by my electrician (just left the off grid unwired to be wired into the second changeover by the solar installers electrician). Was just part of his overall charge for wiring the house and wasn’t itemised so don’t know what it cost.

The solar electrician then added the second change over and wired that to the first one. They actually did it free of change for me as I was buying a big system and batteries plus it was easy in a new build to run the extra wiring etc but they would charge about 1k usually.

Don’t have a photo to hand but the solar-generator change over is mounted in the consumer unit while the main change over is a rotary one placed below the consumer unit. I wanted both board mounted but it was being done after the big storm and board mountable change overs for 80amp supply could not be got anywhere in the country so had to go with the separate switch.