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Child Item

Renting without a job

Waterfrog

Hi everyone,

I have a question. So my wife and I are moving to Ireland next year with our 1 year old son (he'll be 2 by then) and we're currently trying to figure out what's the best way to do it.

She's from the Philippines but we're currently living in Germany which is my home country. I don't need a visa to move to Ireland. My wife does but I don't think it'll be very hard for her to get one since we're married and we have a child together who is also a german citizen.

We don't have any special qualifications. We're just average people trying to relocate in Ireland because we both don't like Germany very much. I've been to Ireland many times and I always wanted to live there. We understand it may not be that easy to move to Ireland but we're ok with a minimum wage job and a small apartment. We don't need much as long as we can live in Ireland and finally get away from Germany.

I know there's currently a housing crisis in Ireland so there's not much to choose from. I found 45 places to rent in the entire country for up to 1,000 Euros a month. We cannot pay more than 1,000 a month for the apartment. At least for the first year in Ireland.

But we're ok with living anywhere in the country except Dublin. At first we really wanted to live somewhere in country Kerry, but we understand because of the housing crisis we have to consider other cities in Ireland too. We prefer smaller towns like Tralee, Letterkenny, Kilkenny or anywhere that's affordable. As long as it has a decent public transport system because we don't have a car or drivers license at the moment. That means we couldn't live in the middle of nowhere without any stores or bus stops nearby. That's the only thing. Other than that we would be ok with anything really.

We were told that it's better to find a place to rent first before looking for a job. Because finding a job is easier. Let's say we find a job first.. there's no guarantee we can find an affordable place to rent in that area. So it's better to have an apartment and then look for any job in the area just to get settled in. We can always find better jobs or apartments in the future.

But is it possible to find landlords who would accept us? We would be ok with paying a higher security deposit or paying for 3 months in advance. Anything that would convince the landlord we are trustworthy. Idk if me or my wife can find an online job before we move but we wouldn't count on it. We're currently just trying to save up money to move.

We also don't have any references from previous landlords because we're gonna be new in Ireland. I'm not sure if the company we are renting from in Germany right now would write a referral letter for the landlord in Ireland. Especially not in english. I could translate it, but still. Referrals are not really a thing in Germany. So we're also not sure how to solve that problem yet.

I already have an irish phone number and and irish bank account that I opened last year. I use it as my main account even though I still live in Germany. But I heard having an irish bank account could benefit us when trying to rent in Ireland.

We would really appreaciate it if you guys could give us some advice about renting in Ireland. Even if it's not gonna be easy or if we have to lower down our standards because of the higher cost of living in Ireland we're ok with it. We love the people in Ireland and we want our son to grow up in that environment.

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Waterfrog

That's true. We will definitely try.

The truth is, people will always say something bad about a country. If I asked people on an australian website about tips for moving to australia they would tell me how bad it is and that I should choose a different country. The same goes for other countries like the US, Norway and many more. There's problems in every country.

I think finding a job is easier than finding a place to live in Ireland.

ballyharpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121979934#Comment_121979934

If you asked me the same question 5+ years ago, I would have given you a different answer, but at the moment, it's not impossible, but it is extremely difficult to find accommodation-not impossible. There are lots of jobs here, but most are minimum wage jobs, unless you have a qualification. Public Transport is available in urban areas, but not fit for purpose in rural areas.

I can't see any country being any better really, unless ye had some money and could go back to the Phillippines?

North America, Canada etc. are a lot worse than here or any part of Europe , even for citizens, not to mind Immigrants- the quality of life there is dismal.

Whether you like it being brought up or not, any disability is going to be a problem for anyone, no point in pretending it's not an issue, it makes life a bit more difficult, which is why it's a disability. There is no judgement on you, or any other person that has one, but if you want help, then you are going to receive honest answers, whether you choose to accept them or not, is your prerogative.

ingo1984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984123#Comment_121984123

Don't agree with that. If you earn a good wage in the US you have a far better quality of life than a comparable wage in Ireland.

LambshankRedemption

We don't mind taking buses. So as long as there's a bus stop nearby we're okay.

You are seriously underestimating the public transport situation in Ireland. The last house I lived in was a 3 mile walk to the nearest bus stop. That bus stop was serviced by two intercity busses every two hours. Edit: I should have pointed out, it wasn't even that rural of an area. Some villages have a bus stop but the bus is twice a day to the next major town. Not suitable for anyone relying on it for work.

You mentioned you found 45 properties in Ireland which are €1000 or less. 45 properties in the entire country? That alone should be telling you its not a good idea. Were any of the 45 in a small village? I doubt it.

We have to get out of Germany

Unless you're on the run from the mob, you really don't have to get out of Germany.

ballyharpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984142#Comment_121984142

We are talking about minimum wage, in this case, but even the average wage earner is much better off in Ireland, that is my experience of having lived there for 11 years. Also, my friends that are there, even the ones making up to 150k, think the quality of life is much better in Ireland, but you are free to disagree.

rowantree18

I've ived in a few different countries and I'm genuinely not trying to be unkind or unhelpful, but there is nowhere to rent for 1000e per month other than a room in a shared house and the owners will not rent to a couple with a baby in one room. This is reality.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984142#Comment_121984142

Not if you get sick or have an accident. A friend of mine making decent money slipped on a curb and injured his back. Within 12 months he had lost his job and health insurance ended as a result. Blew through all of his money paying for medical care so sold up what he had left and returned to Ireland. In theory he has to still pay tax to the USA but he can get back surgery here for less than 5% of the cost in the USA so he can get it done here. He would never been able to get it done in the US and I have American friends who live with conditions that would be sorted here.

Waterfrog

Quick update. We understand 1,000 euros a month may not be possible for an apartment in Ireland. So if we both have jobs we should be able to afford a place for up to 1,300 a month. In a small city or village. Ireland has so many small towns like Kildare, Nenagh, Letterkenny etc.

As long as there's a store to buy groceries and a bus or train station within at least 15-20 minute walking distance we'll be okay. Getting a bicycle is also an option.

About childcare. In Germany people usually pay around 200-300 euros a month for daily childcare. The parents take their kids to a place similar to a kindergarten. It's a small facility with maybe 15 other kids. After work the parents can pick them up again. That doesn't cost more than 300 euros a month. Not sure if there's something similar in Ireland. I'm sure not everyone can afford childcare for like 800 a month. There have to be other solutions.

Another thing: My dad retired early a couple of years ago. He is now 60 years old and he said he would consider moving to Ireland with us. Maybe for the first year. His income is around 1,200 euros a month. And he will continue receiving that amount if he decides to move to Ireland with us. If we all share the costs of an apartment we might be able to do it. It's gonna be a little easier for us. And he would take care of our child while we are at work. That would solve the childcare problem. But that's not set in stone yet. He's not 100% sure if he will come with us, but he said he will definitely consider because there's nothing left for him in Germany and he's lonely most of the time. His english is pretty bad though. Enough to go shopping, ask for directions and other simple things. But that's pretty much it. He has been to Ireland before and he liked it. He would try improving his english skills.

The only real problem about him coming with us is that he has a dog. A small 15 year old dog. I know renting will be almost impossible if we have a dog. The dog doesn't cause problems though. He's really old and quiet. He rarely barks and doesn't destroy anything. Not sure how much longer he will live. By the time we move to Ireland the dog will be 16 years old.

Anyway, if my dad ends of coming with us we'll be able to get a place for maybe 1,500-1,600 a month. But after a year we would like to live alone.

I don't really know if there's something like Kindergarten or Pre-School in Ireland where kids can go after they turn 3 or 4. But I read there are options for low income families.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150310#Comment_122150310

Childcare in Ireland is between 1200 and 1500 eur a month and there is a queue at those prices!!! No cheap option like Germany. We are not at Germany level.

Dogs, you won't find a single landlord to take you in with dog.

Kildare is not small village anymore. Kildare is for Dublin people who cannot afford Dublin places while on good Salaries!!!

mykrodot

… and Letterkenny is like a suburb of Birmingham these days, my sister lives there, she's been there all her adult life, and none of the locals go into the town anymore, its full of asylum seekers and migrants so I would imagine it will be very hard to get accommodation there.

Consider your Dad in this, while it might work for a year, if eventually you want to live alone, what is he going to do then, on his own here in Ireland with very poor English , it will be very hard to rent a place as a single person, and the quality of places will not be as good as in Germany.

I also agree with the childcare, there are waiting lists everywhere. There was a woman on the radio last week, she had moved from Kildare to Cork and thought it would be a breeze getting childcare. She couldn't get her baby in anywhere, so she had to resign her job .

OP you need to really really really think long and hard before coming to Ireland. We are in the worst housing crisis in the history of this country and its getting worse. The cost of everything is a huge consideration too. Ireland these days is not like Ireland even 5 years ago. Its changing so fast most of us can't keep up.

Waterfrog

Our only option is to find online jobs. So that we don't need childcare for a while.

I think online jobs are common in Ireland. So we should find online jobs before moving to Ireland. Then we could just live anywhere in Ireland and it would be easier for us to find a place to rent.

I definitely understand what you guys are saying and I believe it. It will be hard.
Hard but not impossible right? We already decided that we're going to try. We have to.
I know a lot of people here think moving to Ireland is a bad idea and that our chances of failing are high. Every country has problems.

But what would you recommend if we're going to try either way?
What would be the best and most logical way for us to move to Ireland? Even if you think it will be hard. That doesn't mean we have no chance at all. As long as there's even a tiny chance of us succeeding we will try.

The biggest problem we have right now is figuring out how my wife can get an irish residence permit. Are we both allowed to move there at the same time? Or would I be required to move to Ireland first, get a job and apartment and then sponsor her so she can get a visa? Because obviously that wouldn't work. I can't finance my son, pay rent, bills etc. and sponsor my wife at the same time. I doubt most people could.

I know that usually if you want to bring your foreign spouse to your country you have to sponsor them. Like showing the government that you have enough money to support yourself, your children and your spouse. So that they won't become a burden to the irish government.

I'm not sure if that's different in this case. We would like to move to Ireland at the same time. Because this will only work if we both have jobs. I wouldn't even be able to pay rent all by myself.

I really don't know if she could just apply for a visa and say "Hey my husband is moving to Ireland and wants me to go with him".
Wouldn't I have to live in Ireland first before I could get her a residence permit in Ireland? I cannot find anything about it online. EU citizen moving to Ireland with Non-EU Spouse. Not sure who could help me figure this out.

[Deleted User]

So where will your 60 year old father go after a year of living with you?

Honestly, OP, I think you're so set on moving here, that you're working hard to stretch and bend the advice being given to you to make it fit what you want to hear, instead of accepting what posters are telling you - that this is just not a good time to move to Ireland.

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122153212#Comment_122153212

This moving to Ireland is really a plan where you OP have not done your research and you are not offering a unique skill. Trust me OP, I have a disability and a wife. The Irish state donent give a crap about Irish citizens and much less you and your family. You will NOT be even entertained for an apartment viewing without two good incomes. Disability status is a no no for Landlords. This arrangement with your father is poorly thought out and the best is the back of beyonds where you could afford. Ireland is not and will never be with rural trains every 10 miles. Towns with trains or on main bus routes are in high demand and it is not economical to stop in villages.

If you are going to arrive in Ireland with your family you are going to be HOMELESS. You are going to burn through about €2k a week on hotels. I have been there. I had to get a family intervention of a massive injection of money and it has not solved our problems fully due to cost of living and tightening of the means test for disability allowance. You have been given real advice by people on the ground here including someone on the housing list 20 years with Aspergers (ie. Me).

You are being given great advice, if you choose to ignore this advice you are going headlong into grave danger. Nobody will care, we have circa 14k on the streets and loads of adults lining at home until their early 30's and longer.

Waterfrog

We wouldn't give up our apartment in Germany until we both have jobs and a place to live in Ireland.

We would look for jobs first and then a place to live. And only after signing the lease and receiving the keys we would go back to Germany and take care of everything else.

I know people in Ireland probably wouldn't want us to move there because we wouldn't benefit the country in any way. We are not rich and we are not irish. But Germany doesn't want us either. People here are incredibly rude and working here is a disaster. Even the foreign office that issued the residence permit for my wife insulted us and told us we should have thought about it more before having a kid because we are a low income family. They don't even allow my wife to bring her first son here from the Philippines. We both don't have any friends here. Even as a germany it is almost impossible to make friends. People on the streets only talk to you if they have something to complain about. One time my wife was walking on the sidewalk holding her phone because her parents called and some old lady yelled at her and told her she's stupid for using the phone while walking. And if you're too slow bagging your groceries at the store people in line behind you yell at you "hurry the **** up".

You cannot even ask the cashier "how are you" because that's an inappropriate question in Germany if you don't know the person.

All of my foreign friends from the UK, US and other countries who have visited me in Germany in the past told me they didn't like it here and wondered how we could live in a country like this. They said that germans were the rudest people they have ever encountered. And I totally agree with them. Everytime I cross the border and leave germany even for just a few days it feels like a huge relief.

Irish people are the opposite. I have never met a rude irish person. They are always very polite and respectful. And to be honest I would prefer to live in Ireland even if it lowers the quality of life.

I currently pay 679 euros a month for a 60 square meter one bedroom apartment. There's a bus stop, train station and a bunch of different stores in walking distance. I do realize that this won't be possible in Ireland. I would probably pay at least 1,200-1,300 euros a month for the same apartment in Ireland. Maybe even more.

Like I said I'm not looking for a better life. Just a different life. And moving to a new country means I have to accept the problems of that country. If I want to live in Ireland I have to accept the country for what it is. In Germany I can go to as many doctors as I want without paying anything. There's no Co-pay or anything like that. In Ireland its usually 50-80 euros everytime you go to a doctor unless you have a medical card.

I'm willing to accept all that as long as I can be a permanent resident of Ireland. Living there would mean a lot to me.

I know all this probably doesn't make any sense to any of you. And I don't blame anyone. My way of thinking is different and I have never met anyone who fully understood me. I don't expect that to change.

I only have one life and I don't want to waste it living in a country I hate. I'd give up my german citizenship in a heartbeat if I could. And I want my son to grow up in Ireland and get used to the culture, lifestyle and language.

[Deleted User]

I know people in Ireland probably wouldn't want us to move there because we wouldn't benefit the country in any way. We are not rich and we are not irish.

That is a very unfair - I'd go as far as to say offensive - comment about the Irish.

No one here has said anything like that to you. Economic migrants who come to work have always been welcome. All they have done is pointed out the (many) flaws in your plan, which you are determined to ignore. To recap:

(a) Full time working online jobs are not common in Ireland.

(b) Rental accommodation, if you even find any, is horrendously expensive.

(d) Public transport in small towns and villages is terrible.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

You may think you'd be moving to somewhere with friendly people and some imagined idyllic "culture, lifestyle and language" (which, by the way, is rarely heard or spoken outside of small gaeltacht areas), when what you'll actually be doing is moving your family from the frying pan into the fire.

Nothing to do with "not wanted" by the Irish.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151731#Comment_122151731

But it is impossible, OP. Certainly in your current circumstances. That's what people are trying to explain to you. Your current "plan" isn't a plan, it's a pipe dream.

I suggest you start reading Irish news sources such as the journal.ie on a daily basis. It will give you a much more realistic picture of how bad things are here at the moment than the very romanticised view of Ireland you currently have.

To put it in context for you, I couldn't find a place to rent on a salary of €70,000 a year. That's how bad the rental market is here. The issue isn't just affordability, it's availability. I was a single, child-free professional competing with couples for one-bed places; obviously a landlord is going to want the security of two salaries over one. You're going to be doing the same, only as a family, with a baby and possibly a pensioner in the mix, potentially on HAP. Please take it from me in the kindest way you possibly can - this is not going to happen for you. I'm sorry.

[Deleted User]

OP, finding a job in Ireland is easy. Finding a place to live is not. I wouldn't move here unless/until you had accommodation absolutely guaranteed.

And i just can't see you finding family accommodation for €1,300 a month anywhere in the country.

You'll have zero real difficulty getting stamp 4 EUFAM for your wife. I can't remember the technicalities of whether you need to line up a visa in advance.

But honestly, if you come over with your family without having secured accommodation FIRST, you'll probably just become homeless. And by accommodation, i mean at least a year lease- holiday accommodation for a few weeks isn't going to do anything but drain your finances and temporarily delay becoming homeless.

Waterfrog

I didn't mean to disrespect or insult anyone. Sometimes I have problems explaining certain things.

What other choice do I have though?

Ireland is the only english speaking country we could move to.

I'd be open minded about moving to other english speaking countries as well, but that doesn't seem to be possible. I don't think we could move to Canada or even New Zealand. And definitely not the US. We wouldn't even get a visa to live there.

I also watched a lot of videos about Canada and I did research. There are a lot of Canadians who think Ireland is a much better place to live than Canada. They say the situation in Canada is horrible and it's way too expensive. And that Ireland is a much better country with good health care, cost of living etc.

And americans complain about the US and say they wanna move to Canada. My friend from the UK keeps telling me about how bad it is in the UK and that she cannot find an affordable accommodation anywhere.

So it feels like everyone always thinks bad about their own country.

So where am I gonna live? I feel like I'll regret it if I don't even try.

Isn't Ireland the most realistic option? I don't see how I could get a visa to live in Canada, Australia, New Zealand or anywhere else.

Ireland is an EU country which means I only have to worry about jobs and accommodation. Not the residence permit.

I appreciate all the help so far and I know people are just being honest about the current situation in Ireland. It's not that I don't believe any of you.

If we still decided to try moving to Ireland next year. What would be the best way to do it? And which part of Ireland should we move to?

I understand we need a place to live. Obviously no landlord would accept us without jobs. But how do we find jobs if we don't have a place to live in that area? Let's say we find good jobs in Tralee. What if we don't find accommodation there? So it would make more sense to find accommodation first since its easier to find jobs. But without jobs no landlord will accept us.

How could we increase our chances? What could we do to make this work somehow? Because obviously most people here think our plan isn't going to work out that way. What could we do instead?

dublin49

Maybe you have a dream of an idyllic quiet life in rural Ireland and its that which is pushing you to attempt a move that is fraught with difficulties given your circumstances.I have heard of people house sitting and this might be your most realistic option given your financial position.There may be a website that would help you in your search,good luck,

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156422#Comment_122156422

I'm sorry, OP, but the fact that you're even asking all these very basic questions about how to move here speaks volumes about how naive you're being about this whole thing. Apart from asking randomers on an Irish website, have you done any *actual * research on the logistics and realities of moving here (even assuming it was feasible, which again, it isn't)? Spoken to an immigration lawyer about how to get your wife a visa? Even looked at the Irish immigration service website??? The fact that you think Ireland has a good health care system says to me that you've done little to no actual research about what Ireland is actually like.

Again, I'm sorry to be harsh but a couple of visits here and conversations with people online who are also suffering from grass-is-greener syndrome are not enough to give you anything even approaching a realistic idea of what a country is actually like to live in. Especially on the margins, which is 100% where you'll be if you make this move.

[Deleted User]

How about moving within Germany?

There must be other places within Germany that you could move to and bring your father with you, if you don't like where you live now.

Your UK friend and a couple of US and canadians have told you the situation is "much better in Ireland", and you believe that, but when Irish people living in Ireland are here, telling you the truth on the ground, you refuse to accept it?

The fact that you think healthcare is good here, when there is a chronic shortage of GPs, (try getting a GP if you're new to an area, let alone a GP appointment) or that the cost of living is good, shows how little research you have actually done.

mrslancaster

An example of the difficulty in finding a place to rent in ireland OP: just saw an ad for a rental at €1400pm which had 11000 views in one day, and another for almost €1600 that had 20000 views. They were in dublin ok and well above your budget but even a tiny one bed flat in tralee in your price range had over 5000 views of the ad in a couple of days.

If even half a percent of those viewers manage to get an appointment to look at the place, you can see how it is almost impossible to find somewhere to live. Bear in mind that private landlords will only rent to people with secure employment, previous references etc. and will not rent a one bed unit to 3 adults and a child. You would need at least a two bed place if your parent is living with you. If you also factor in the problems with finding a childcare place and the cost of that, then you are making things very difficult for yourself. There's no easy answer to your dilemma.

Deeper Blue

In reality your best bet is for both of you to spend a few more years in Germany, earn degrees, and try again in a few years.

Arriving to Ireland in 2024 with no qualifications, jobs or driving licences and expecting to find cheap accommodation in a decent area is impossible. Not unlikely, impossible.

You'll be competing with hundreds of others that have stable incomes and you haven't a hope of making a landlord's shortlist, nevermind getting a lease.

RE the online job idea, I don't think they're common in Ireland at all, and without a qualification would be difficult to obtain in any case.

Best of luck to you.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156537#Comment_122156537

It could potentially be 3 adults and 2 kids, assuming his wife will want to eventually bring her older son over from the Phillipines also.

(The OP mentioned this other child a couple of posts ago).

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156513#Comment_122156513

Sounds like another option to consider or maybe look at other adjacent EU countries where language is not an issue if the main objective is to move from the current location. An earlier post in the thread mentioned cross-border workers in relation to the OP's spouse because their residence permit is only valid for Germany and if OP's spouse can work in those countries, maybe that's an option. Imo, just upping sticks and travelling to a different country with a wife, child and older parents, without qualifications, or a job, or a place to live, seems very reckless.

YellowLead

Everybody here is just being honest.
If you don’t want to listen by all means continue your reverie - but you will end up having to go back to Germany if you arrive here with no jobs, unfortunately.
As another mentioned - why not move to another area of Germany? The whole country isn’t the same. Or the Philippines?

If you’ve never had stable employment - what makes you think that you’ll be able to cope with working in Ireland? I imagine it would be very hard to find a good job, you’d definitely be looking at minimum wage and you’d have to be willing to take whatever you can get. Most fully remote jobs available in Ireland are highly skilled tech jobs.
The best advice I’ve seen is to try and get degrees in Germany and some experience behind your belt and then to try - surely you can hang in there a few years, life isn’t always easy and sometimes a bit of work and putting up with less than ideal is needed to get what we want.

I know this sounds harsh but it seems you’ve spent your whole life changing countries and jobs and a wife and maybe need to consider that running and changing external elements of your life is not going to change who you are. I know plenty of people with autism who work full time and have great careers, so I’m not sure that’s an excuse for never having settled into work - albeit it’s a lot more challenging, it’s doable.

ax530

Not sure how you go about finding the 'job' but could be option to be a live in carer.

Old people near me have home help / carers from Phillipines living with them. One I know of they have a child too and one parents also has a job outside the home. I guess payment is accommodation not sure how it works but looks like good idea.

MakersMark

The only type of landlord who would rent to attendant in this situation is either crooked or very very naive.

Emblematic

Renting in Ireland for the most part is not just expensive, but also not secure. Therefore you should not do it if you have a family.

You need to be in a position to purchase a property.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156694#Comment_122156694

OP hasn't a hope of getting a job as a carer in a rural area without a car. It's *just * about doable by bus in Dublin.