Old thread seems to be permanently locked. It will be interesting if anything can come of this at last.
Threadbanned Posters:
Like a lot of journalists!
There is that account that Bailey was introduced to Sophie but even if he was not, I am sure he was told about her. He was a narcissist and she was outlier for the area, someone of note. Someone a narcissist would believe they should be in the company of and are equal to.
That's my thinking
He says he saw her once from a distance. I dont believe that.
It sounds like a lie
But Sophie wasn't really someone of note in her own right. She was the wife of a french film producer and this wasn't known by many in west cork at all. To the locals she was just a french woman who owned a holiday home - they knew nothing about her really. By all accounts she kept to herself when in Cork
I don't see how Bailey could have known much about her really. I don't buy he was hoping she could help him.
I believe that. It sounds like the truth.
If he was that much of a narcissist, if he did have much contact with Sophie, he'd have broadcast it all over town.
Yet... there's nothing.
We've absolutely zero evidence of any contact or familiarity to the level of opening the door to a random knock at 3am.
Sophie only visited a few times a year and lived several miles away. She makes no mention of Ian Bailey in her diary or notebooks. Similarly Ian makes no mention of her in any of his.
Without any evidence that they had any noteworthy interaction or connection it is more believable that they did not know eachother.
Also he would have spoken openly to people who did know her, asking for an introduction etc - there’s no such statements by anyone to that affect anywhere - only the “90% certain” quick introduction by Alfie one afternoon
90% that's pretty sure. When was this said by him, near the time?
Strangely enough, this is documented; in the extract posted earlier in the thread where a lady was at Alf Lyon's house one afternoon, chatting to guy she thought was wordy and pretentious. (Yes, it was Ian B) While doing that, someone pointed out the neighbour, a French lady who owned the next door holiday home. She said Bailey showed no interest and certainly no sign of acquaintance.
It seems they were introduced briefly and that is absolutely all. Confirmed by Leo Bolger, the Lyons'es, and Bailey himself. Absolutely not a crumb of evidence to suggest otherwise.
Absolutely he would have spoke about it. In the 90's aswell, the internet was only starting to become popular so its not like he done a quick search and found out everything about Sophie. I doubt he even had computer skills at the time - he was still using a typewriter!
I cant see how Bailey would have known anything about Sophie whatsoever other than where her holiday home was. How could he have possibly have known she was even alone that christmas - nobody would expect someone to be alone at Christmas. Even if Alfies (90% sure) introduction is true ,it was literally a quick intro where they were told each others names and no chat whatsoever occurred.
Absolutely all confirmed by Bailey?
This is entirely your own imaginings.
It was 80 - 90% but that means nothing. In the thread Day Lewin mentions above, the Boards poster (who knew Alfie very well) who spoke with Bailey at length in Alfie's house a few months before Sophie's murder said that Bailey's presence at the party was a source of mirth as no-one knew whether Alfie had invited him, or Bailey had gatecrashed it - including Alfie himself, who couldn't remember whether he'd invited Bailey or not!
I believe that was a post of mine. To follow on from that;
The Gardai were questioning the guests at the BBQ and the poster was expecting them to approach her and she made notes of what went on.They were given a name of someone who was not at the party, but they told the Gardai to talk to the poster. The Gardai never spoke to her, they were not interested as it was obvious it didn’t fit with their “he met her” story.
It was supposedly Alfie who pointed her out to him. I am sure being her neighbour, he knew about her. A dead American folk singer's wife lives close by to me, everyone knows that about her even though she doesn't go singing it from the rooftop. Small communities talk and even more so back then in rural Ireland. If an outsider moves into the area, you know about them.
He wasnt an immediate neighbour. He lived in same locality. He knew about her but what does that signify... nothing.
West Cork was full of outsiders and holiday homes. Lots of names that pop up in relation to the case are outsiders... Alfie Lyons, Ian Bailey, Sophie Toscan du Plantier, the Ungerers, Karl Heinz Wolney etc
Additionally Sophie was hardly there and most of the time she was there she had company. Didnt seem to go out to eg same pubs as Bailey.
Intrigued by the mention of the shadowy Karl Heinz Wolney, I tried Googling the name and found THIS;
Thought-provoking, for sure!
Sophie only visited Cork a few times a year for a few days at a time so its completely different to someone living permanently in an area. The attraction of West Cork for Sophie was getting away from it all and being secluded. She had no interest in the locals and didnt really have time to get to know anyone. She knew few people in the area and it is said she wasnt a great english speaker. I doubt she went around introducing herself as a french documentary maker - people in general dont speak to outsiders about their work life. I doubt the Hellens, Alfie or anybody local knew much about her French life other than the Ungerers.
East German, came to West Cork in the early 90's with his wife, shortly after the Berlin wall came down. They bought a place with a few acres in Toormore, I haven't found the address. His wife left him shortly before the murder, I think she returned to Germany. He returned to Germany a few months after the murder. He allegedly committed suicide in Feb 1997 shortly after Bailey was first arrested.
Nobody seems to know more than this. I just wonder, for example, whether he spoke French. He appears to have an alibi for the earlier part of the night, but not for thedawn/morning period.
DID he know Sophie personally?
Was the estranged wife interviewed? She might have been able to throw some light on this. (and have no reason to defend him!)
The Frenchman was called Georges Pecout. He was a fish trader and lived about a mile or so from Sophie. He is undoubtedly the man who Bruno Carbonnet describes he and Sophie meeting in a restaurant in 1993. He told them that he had been interested in buying Sophie's house at one time. He also apparently went shooting on Finbarr Hellen's land. He committed suicide in Jan 1997 - supposedly he was suffering from terminal cancer. Interestingly he did make a statement but, surprise surprise, it's missing.
For pity's sake!
Every possible line of investigation that wasn't quoted in the "Get Ian Bailey" campaign, seems to have gone missing!
So Wolney and Pecout both committed suicide after the murder.
Interesting.
The final person mentioned in the article apparently left Ireland the next day...
"...There was the travel agent from Galway who met a ‘frazzled’ Frenchman who mentioned west Cork the day after Sophie was killed. The man apparently booked a hotel next to the airport before leaving the country. He’s never been tracked down. ..."
Surely to goodness these lines should have been followed up in more detail - if only to eliminate?
Does anyone reckon the Cold Case Reviewers will do so?
So, we've got; Paddy the Englishman, Paddy the Frenchman and Paddy the German, but no Paddy the Irishman.
Brilliant!
Thank you for making me smile whilst reading about this sad case.
It's no joke.
Edit; There's actually a serious side, when you think about it.
The criteria appeared to be,;
Male ...tick
Foreign... tick
Oddball.....tick
Agree, It’s not!
I see, my ‘brilliant’ comment was said because I read between the lines in what I thought you were saying albeit not the exact criteria you have since added. It made me smile because I thought it was a great comment that made a lot of sense.
Yes, sorry I edited after your comments.
This is really incredible and like missing vital evidence here again..it's just so annoying.
thanks for posting this also bjsc. These others open the story so much more.. certainly merit investigation from the cold case team..hopefully they are considering all of this.
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