It's also pretty unbelievable that Isis terrorists would be captured alive. They die in holy combat for their rewards in the afterlife. It's their raison d'être and why they're hard to defend against. Why give all that up to be captured by the Russian FSB above all organisations? It seems like nonsense to me.
Surely the most believable theory is that Isis carried out this and the perpetrators are also dead.
The rest is a Russian performance to garner some sort of positive spin for their war effort out of what is a bad situation for them.
See my reply to Rogber, post 108066, Fresh from the oven.
Exactly!!! This was a professional hit, for sure, and for the people carrying it out, it was not their first time either. Apparently, 3 gunmen concentrated on the killing while one laid the explosives, spread the fire accelerant, and locked the escape exits. Military precision written all over it. These were not amateurs. The miracle was that the death toll was not much higher, obviously they planned to kill many more in the ensuing fire, which later collapsed the roof.
I'm thinking there should be a submarine or two in that list. Are submarines not part of the Black Sea Fleet?
About 3 hrs ago, I was talking to a friend in Russia, and the word there is that it was done by the US, through Ukraine, using the Telegram channel, as described by one of the captured gunmen. But what they think is that the 4 guys were stupid and lured by easy money. No mention of ISIS. not yet anyhow.
The guys who carried this out must have known the layout of the building in great detail. In order to do this they must have been through the building on a number of occasions - all of them - and they must have been walking around the place where they lived , entering the building , etc. if I was Putin I would be examining the list of employees, service contractors, individuals who have suddenly left/ gone sick and of course any CCTV in the area. There is a high possibility that those involved would be ‘thrown up’ by such a thrall.
but instead of Putin considering the above approach he decided to get 4 ‘volunteers’ to agtree to plead guilty and that they were guided/managed and funded by Ukr
Yeah, I think the truth might be somewhere in the middle: it was an Islamist attack but the perpetrators have escaped and the Russian authorities have been gutted and rendered so dysfunctional by the Ukraine war they have had to bullshít some patina of competence cos they've been caught with their àsses hanging out. The nonsense about Ukraine a particularly desperate attempt to curry some 2 Minute Hate energy towards the "enemy"
And the impending collapse of Russia
Just my opinion, I don't think that they have the real perpetrators,,,the Kremlins story stinks to high heaven. Commit mass murder, jump in a vehicle, and head for Ukraine??? No way!! Putin needed to show that they were on the ball, and everything is back under control.
For dramatic irony alone I hope the St George the Victorious sinks next.
In a nutshell:
this looks like so me sort of 'loyalty coupon' or discount card. Collect all ships and you get something for free. 6 more to go...
...
Presently, that's the million-dollar question.
Yes, I've just seen it, with the faces blurred out. And even by their build, they don't look like the ones caught by Putin's FSB even allowing for them having their uniforms removed. So did they do it? I dont know, even if the US says they did, which is admittedly very compelling evidence. We will see how it pans out.
Around 33
Yes there is not a single person, probably not even in Russia, who genuinely believes Ukraine had any involvement.
I'm not actually sure Putin is going to use this to escalate in any way, more just to cover his ass: if he admits it was Isis, it's a massive security failure and a new threat, if Ukraine then it justifies endless war, so it's the excuse that serves him best (still a security failure but hey it's Russia nobody expects accountability)
Wonder how many refineries there are in Russia and is it feasible that most can be taken out.Proberly wishful thinking but that and giving the people who so far have not suffered the consequences of Putin's the jitters seems one big way to hopefully turn the tide .There seems little chance of enough military defeats against Putin to turn in favour of Ukraine .
I've read that the way things go in Russia one day it looks like nothing could ever change them out of the blue everything changes.
What I'm suggesting is that whoever did it, it was a very professional job. And was planned down to the last detail. I'm not suggesting anything, because I don't know who did it, or who ordered it. But all the details supplied by the Kremlin, linking it to Ukraine are just unbelievable.
I can see why your man lost his job.
i would assume months but russia seems like a forever juggernaut. I reckon one day there might be a chain reaction of things collapsing.
Yes @pixelburp Over the years I carefully curated a list of people to follow, mainly known journo's, papers, experts in areas and all that .. alot of work in that :D .. I can get away from most of the rubbish by sticking to the FOLLOWING tab rather than the FOR YOU tab. But even the FOLLOWING TAB is now getting infiltrated some what. If that gets too much yes I will abandon. Its a shame, because the concept if run right and moderated right is good.
I think the whole Social Media aspect of the Internet is a busted flush at this stage.
If, and it's a big if, the current rate of hitting the refineries keeps up I'd say months before they are in serious trouble, at the front, at home and financing the continuing war at all..
Twitter is a busted flush and while I don't see it fully collapsing if the journalists abandon it, it's fúcked. But primarily the best response to its sharp decline of standards would be to log out, and stay logged out.
You seem to be suggesting this was some kind of inside job. Why can't you just accept the evidence that Isis did it? They have produced very credible claims to back it up and the US seems to fully believe them, these were not some fsb guys with beards taped on
So from what appears to be an Xer on team putin / russia. Note just tweeting the following "info" but no source what so ever. Anyway here ye go, try this on:
In case you're wondering why "it took so long" to apprehend terrorists. This is important to understand:
The secret services found the terrorists either while they were still in Moscow or in the Moscow region, and tracked the car to figure out where they were going and whether they would meet with anyone.
At the same time, their phones were being listened to, which led to seven more detainees in this case.
Then, in the wee hours of morning, when the terrorists were already tired and the information had largely been gathered, the arrest took place so as not to "spoil their skin and take them alive for interrogation."
Thats quite the haul, 3 planes and 2 ships and I believe another wild refinery ?in one night....russia is huge but there is only so long they can sustain these losses.. months ? years ?
If it wasn't those 4 men and Russia doesn't have 4 others who are actually guilty then they can't keep on looking and that would be untenable.
They must have the men ,but where are they?
If it is those 4 men they have they been given a script to learn before being "interrogated" in public?
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