The Guardian is reporting this evening that three men wearing camouflaged outfits administered open gunfire among people at a Concert Hall in Moscow.
There's are reports of an explosion carried at the venue as well. I don't know how heavy the explosion at the moment. But reports suggests it could be a very serious one.
No reports of any injuries so far.
**Threadbans**
Safesurfer
I love the simplicity of heading for the Ukrainian border... this size of Russia and Ukraine and you assume they were on this one road to Kiev
For a start ISIS never claimed responsibility for either of those. As for the US whataboutism, that's all it is. Yep, the US went gung ho killing innocents, just like their talk of WMD before the Iraq war(s). All murderous bullshít and the Kremlin leaned over and copied their homework on that score, peppering it with "biolabs" and "nazis" to make it their own.
Ah yes, remember biolabs? Now memory holed. Just like weaponised birds, dirty bombs, French officers in Mariupol, 50 NATO officers killed in a bunker(s), gas attacks, German troops in German tanks, the Wagner coup that wasn't... the list is long. All nations have their own flavour of spin and propaganda. Russia's flavour-and it's a clever if crude one-is to claim all sorts of daftness through various outlets, the dafter the better, only to memory hole it a few weeks later. Rinse and repeat. However this stuff rarely comes from Putin himself. That's deliberate. He's the "sensible voice" in the storm of BS they've created around him. It's designed to confuse and wind up their audience so after a while they'll suck up anything. Ever notice how your once general WEF/Q-Anon/Vaxx/MSM/Deep State/Moon landings/MAGA/Do your own research! etc conspiracy theorist encountered online, many of whom couldn't have placed Russia, never mind Ukraine on a map 5 years ago, is now almost 100% guaranteed to be a Russia supporter? This stuff plays extremely well to that personality type.
And they'll lap it up this time, until this is memory holed and the next run of BS lands.
As for Kiev bombing Donbas for 8 years? The Donbas war claimed circa 15,000 lives. What's left out of this Kremlin talking point oft repeated the toll was 60/40 Russian/Ukrainian. Its peak of mayhem was 2014-16 and rapidly trailed off in casualties after that. How many died in 2021? Under 30. How many have died since putin's invasion? How many died just this weekend? Forget whatever politics you're having yourself, compare and contrast. The results speak for themselves.
When you have the crystal ball out that tells you how the investigation will turn out maybe you could look at the best place to cross the border of an active front line.
Both Russia and Ukraine have committed war crimes, executed prisoners etc. no need for yet more uncivil remarks. If you really believe that acknowledging facts is akin to prostituting oneself for Putin then debate really has reached a nadir.
Very careless to mistake the border with Belarus for that with Ukraine then. Even odder is them even getting out of Moscow and even reaching it. Ukraine has no ability to ensure that there was effectively no security presence at a gathering of nearly 8,000 people in Moscow after a clear warning from the US and that there would then be no security check points. The Russian authorities could.
No 'investigation' is going to come to a conclusion that doesn't support Putin's findings.
So let's think about this ,America and other countries give a a warning of attack, Russia disregards the warning, despite Russia having one of the best intelligence agencies in the world, attack happens, no security, exits locked ,4 men with aks and very small back backs ,no ammo belts ,that I could see,they shoot a lot of people and burn down a modern building, which would have had fire control installed, and get back in the car and drive 4-500 miles towards the Ukraineian border ,without being challenged, This is an ssb op employing Islamic mercs, except a big announcement from putin soon.
I’m out.
The thread is 30 hours old. Not 2 years.
The same way I am sure you believe them when they say Ukraine is committing war crimes. Or do you only believe Russia commits war crimes?
Mod
@SafeSurfer @Jinglejangle69 both of you give it a rest, your argument is off topic and doesn't belong in this thread
Ukraine blamed Russia for killing civilians it killed itself. That’s exactly the point I made.
Safe surfer has 3000 posts on boards yet appears all of a sudden as Pro Russian on a thread that’s going 2 years.
Has someone got to him??
What are you saying that they are not the same people?
The video where the terrorists apparently 'confessed' to Russian authorities that they were paid money to carry out the attack doesn't tally at all with the ISIS video from the theatre. In the attack, they were shouting Allahu Akbar and referring to the victims as 'infidels' - seems the Putin regime may not have realised there was an ISIS video of the attack in existence and that it would be made public.
How do you explain ISIS's official social media channel uploading the video this evening btw?
Ok.
Name calling because you have been proven wrong.
Well done.
Yeah yeah who illegally invaded Crimea in 2014?
Remember Prigozin last year admitting all this talk of Ukraine bombing the Donbas in 2014 was lies etc etc etc.
Where is Prigozin now???
No one believes your Russian lies anymore, just give it up. It’s pathetic Ivan.
Oh why didn’t you say that before. No one would be sneaky enough to shout Allah Akbar unless they were a genuine Islamic terrorist.
Also, were they underwater when they recorded the audio for the video 🤣
No, it’s the right way round.
Ukraine has killed thousands of civilians since 2014. They were shelling Donbas for 8 years.
Also, remember this, the deadly “Russian” attack on a market that killed civilians was headline news everywhere and coincided with Blinken’s visit to announce more money and weapons for Ukraine?
That was the Ukrainians.
The guys on the video are literally shouting 'Allahu Akbar' as they walk around the theatre lobby. It's going to take some mental gymnastics by the Russians and their idiotic disciples in the west to deny this is an ISIS attack - the video of the attack has appeared on an official ISIS social media channel (none of this is going to script for Putin and his regime).
Did ISIS carry out the Las Vegas massacre and blow up Nordstream too.
Best to see where the investigation goes before jumping to conclusions like the US did after 9/11, invading countries, toppling leaders and killing thousands who were completely unconnected to the attack.
I think you’re mixing up your words Ukrainians/Russians.
Other way around chief…
Well the video clearly shows them inside the huge theatre lobby and it's the same four terrorists that were captured later. Good luck with Russia trying to prove that Ukraine and ISIS are working hand in hand to anyone who is not a braindead western Putin bot on social media.
No it doesn’t.
Unfortunately not. You haven't being paying attention if you think plain logic will stop Putin. This will be Ukraine trained ISIS fighters or some such crap.
No it doesnt put an end to the nonsense .. it is only starting :D .. Welcome to further down Putins rabbit hole. I imagine he will denounce this as fake video manufactured with AI by Ukraine .. that kind of thing
A helluva lot of difference. Darina Dugin was an inciter of genocide against Ukraine, like her father, a Goebbels or Streicher like figure and the Kerch bridge was a a piece of vital strategic infrastructure. The fact that one person (one! while Russian attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure have killed hundreds) was killed is irrelevant. How many civilians died when the British executed the Dambuster raids or Operation Carthage? Once again we see the double standard: the Russians can kill thousands and it produces shrugs but the Ukrainians have to be pure and wage a perfect war with no civilian casualties. Even the Allies killed hundreds of thousands of civilians while fighting the Nazis.
ISIS have uploaded a video in the last few minutes of their own terrorists carrying out the attack (not sure how they managed to get hold of the footage - perhaps it was live streamed or something). At least that puts an end to the nonsense that Ukraine was somehow involved.
I wouldn't say its certain the Ukrainian's are responsible but I wouldn't say its impossible either. You're assuming the Ukrainian intelligence services think like you do. But we already know they have carried out bombings of Russian civilian and Russian journalists. The carbombing of Darya Dugina, the bombing of a cafe in St Petersburg to kill one Russian journalist (and injure 25), and the truck bombing of the Kerch bridge which killed 5 (orphaning a teenage girl) including the unwitting truck driver. These attacks were all extremely provocative, and they were all accompanied by gloating from Ukrainian social media and government figures, followed shortly by extremely dubious denials of Ukrainian involvement with the (again provocative) claims that the Russians were bombing themselves. Add to that the militarily useless but provocative drone attacks and shelling of Russian villages on the border. I don't see this Ukrainian restraint or concern about provoking Russia that you see.
There's been recent stories in US media that US intelligence services are uncomfortable with the methods of Ukrainian intelligence services and are unable to restrain them. This seems like a self-serving narrative for the US, but it does hint that the CIA knows Ukrainian intelligence (which they trained) is very capable of doing very dubious things, even by the standards of the CIA. As I said its very odd the US is absolutely certain it was IS, and not Ukraine, but it does serve their interests to push that narrative.
Its not a certainty the Ukrainians did this, but they cannot be ruled out either and on the initial evidence the gunmen were mercenaries, not martyrs. But lets wait and see where the investigation leads.
It seems hard to understand how four people could be found to slaughter so many people for $11,000 each. I was just listening to lex Friedman podcast on new book nuclear war and how easily it could happen and started reading here.
This is not a good development. Why do so many world leaders think it's acceptable to kill other people. I don't know what's happened since COVID but it feels like things are going a bat sh1t crazy in the world.
Would be good if sensible adults started using words not guns
If it wasn't IS, the idea of Ukrainian officials being behind it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever since anyone in Ukraine know the strategic implications and response from the Kremlin and ensuing cries for greater mobilisation from Putin. Not exactly something Ukraine needs to happen right now given how much they're publicly complaining about lack of resources to defend themselves from Russia's invasion.
And if it isn't IS nor Ukraine, then suspicion will fall back on Russian agents themselves. The idea that a domestic security service will buoy up a potential terrorist threat with money and logistical support in order to then apprehend them and get the kudos for it is certainly not an unknown one. It's something the FBI have been reported as doing many times, although not to the point of allowing dozens of citizens to be murdered, though that isn't an an extra step I can't imagine being taken by Putin's Russia.
