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Child Item

Rent a Room Scheme Experiences

JimmyMW

Long story short, due to unplanned/unforeseen financial circumstance I find myself in a position where I will need to rent out a room in my house to maintain a relatively comfortable financial life. As I have a small child who lives with me for a portion of the week it is essential that I have separate spaces. I have read through the revenue requirements regarding the rent a room scheme and I am in a lucky position that I will be able to successfully create a one bedroom self contained unit with minimal alterations to the existing spaces. I have also read the regulations surrounding licencees VS tenants and should be able to have the renter as a licencee. I want to know has anyone done something similar in the past and how did it work out? Is there any problem which is not obvious or pitfalls etc, I appreciate any advice given.

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Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901631#Comment_121901631

If there is a dispute then at that point someone would be looking at it and making a decision.

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901520#Comment_121901520

Where are you getting this info from?

If the licensee has access to the kitchen but doesn't use it how do they determine the reality and have they ever done so?

Licencsee has access to the kitchen. That's the reality.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901733#Comment_121901733

Who though.

The RTB couldn’t look at it as they wouldn’t have jurisdiction as it’s not a tenancy.

Shared front door, shared kitchen = rent a room, no?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901870#Comment_121901870

If all it took to deny the RTB jurisdiction was for one party to claim that the other was a licensee, there would be no RTB.

The dispute you are proposing is over whether a person is a licensee or tenant. Who do you think would decide that?

Your scenario is not really proposing a shared kitchen. You are proposing what you think is a "loophole" i.e. a claim that the owner also uses the tenants separate kitchen. Such a claim would be assessed as to whether it is actually the reality or not.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901954#Comment_121901954

Yeah but your forgetting that the licencee has access to the kitchen as well as the kitchenette.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902521#Comment_121902521

At no point did I comment on specifics of your own intentions or cunning plans to beat the system. I'm only trying to tell you that - where there is a dispute as to the status of the tenant/licensee - those making the decision will look at the reality, not the paperwork.

If the reality reflects what you are claiming then you will be ok. If the granny flat you rented out is connected to the main house by an always locked door, and your "licensee agreement" contains a clause to the effect that you the landlord is allowed to go in to use the supplied George Foreman grill whenever they want, but obviously never do because you have your own fully fitted kitchen in the main house, then you likely won't be ok.

In the same way,if you rent out your studio or 1-bed apartment to a couple, insert a clause into a "licensee agreement" that you can stay there whenever you like, feck off to Australia for 2 years, come back and try to summarily evict your "licensees", well if they resist and take a case, the reality of the situation will be that they will be found to be tenants.

Anyone is free to proceed with their own "ingenious loophole" if they so wish. If they subsequently run into trouble and learn the hard way that it wasn't quite the get-out-of-jail free card that they hoped, then so be it. Lesson learned.

Fiona

You just need to make sure you get the right person!

I am on my 4th person, first one was grand some issues with noise which was addressed. The second was a dream. The 3rd was kicked out after 5 days! We now have a Pakistani doctor living with is and he is a dream.

You need to be very strict on your house rules, they need to be discussed out at the outset when a person comes to view the room, if they can't agree to them then there is no point on continuing, of course there does need to be some give and take in terms of them having visitors etc.

I find the more you integrate them into your family the easier it is, sharing of crockery, washing machine etc means you don't need to segregate out things (of course a spare shelf for food etc) I am getting my dinner cooked for me every evening and in return I am doing my lodgers laundry win win I hate cooking!!

I have only ever had men rent our spare room, I don't want another woman in the house, that brings with it hair dying, nailpolish / fake tan and just mess in the bathroom (I have teenage step daughters they are enough lol!)

That said there has never been any feeling of being unsafe in the house with them or around my stepkids when they are with us at the weekend so ignore the scaremongering tactics on here!!

It's a handy way to make money but you do need to be assertive, if things are not working you need to have frank and honest conversations to iron out issues straight away. You learn as you go along!

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897442#Comment_121897442

Some landlords are homeless now because a tenant is in their house and wont move out.

Imagine if you rented a room in your house and they turned out to be a nightmare and were supported by the RTB and then you are the one who has to move out of your own house.

Or even just not being able to get someone you dont get on with out from under yours and your familys roof.

Nobody is going to do rent a room scheme in their own home if thats the case. Get ready for all the rent a room evictions if anything like that even looked remotely possible.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901853#Comment_121901853

Landlord would have access to the licensees kitchen too.

What you have here is people telling you that they know they law and say if...but....then .... or the licensee might be an alien and that means they are a tenant.

At the end of the day if those people could produce some cases where a licensee with a kitchenette who was deemed to be a tenant it would help their case.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911730#Comment_121911730

In fairness, I would say the scenario where a landlord takes in a lodger and then the RTB rule that the landlord (who has been playing by the rules) must move out is very rare.

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911745#Comment_121911745

Was thinking that too. A lot of hypothetical worst case scenarios with no real world examples.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911730#Comment_121911730

SF bill about licensees. Maybe some owner occupiers doing RaR would be ok with these rules and being answerable to the RTB but its hard to see how SF think this would help to increase the supply of rooms to rent.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2024/8/

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121901870#Comment_121901870

Maybe not.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911745#Comment_121911745

/https://www.rtb.ie/downloads/tribunal-report/TR0822-005657-DR0222-75623_Report.pdf

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121914018#Comment_121914018

/https://www.rtb.ie/downloads/tribunal-report/TR0822-005657-DR0222-75623_Report.pdf

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916492#Comment_121916492

Trying to find out why that's relevant to rent a room licensees.

Line 3 of section 5 says it was a tenancy agreement.

Later on it says its not the landlords residence. So not "rent a room".

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916490#Comment_121916490

That is in no way the same thing. You've been asked for an example of something as proof and posted a link to something that is nothing like what you were asked for.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916638#Comment_121916638

Read the rest of it. The landlord had claimed it was rent a room. Access to a shared kitchenette was involved!

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916640#Comment_121916640

Read the Tribunal Report. It deals with the majority of scenarios posited in the discussion.

You are claiming that there are no cases on point and then whhen presented with one try to deny it.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916665#Comment_121916665

Have you even read it yourself. It is in no way the same thing. This was a building with different floors and with other commercial tenants. And all sorts of other things that im not going to wast e my time pointing out for you, since its your link and really you should have read before posting instead of wasting everyones time.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121915284#Comment_121915284

I have not read all of it, but from what I can see SF are trying to turn licencees into tenancy’s.

If this bill goes through I imagine rent a room scheme numbers will plummet.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916855#Comment_121916855

Imagine the massive numbers of rent a roomers being asked to leave all at once.

tom1ie

Yep SF will absolutely fcuk up the rental market if this bill goes through.

I just don’t understand how any FF or FG politicians aren’t pointing this out!

Imagine a college kid renting a room in your house for more than 6 months would require 30 days notice to be moved out but could refer the matter to the rtb- and not a damn thing you could do about it.

No thanks.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916989#Comment_121916989

2 or 3 years to get an absolute horror show to move out of your living room and kitchen. What a nightmare.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121916706#Comment_121916706

I nhave read it. The landlord lived there and had a signed rent a room agreement. The tenants kitchen was supposedly shared. The report also mentions similar cases.

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121917007#Comment_121917007

They have notice periods of 30 days / 60 days / 75 days in the doc and for some reason, shorter notice periods if the notice is given by the licensee. Not sure how enforceable that is. With current tenant agreements people overhold all the time and the RTB / government don't seem to care.

I rent out a couple of rooms in my house. I've told them they need to give me a month notice and I'd give them a months notice when finishing up. With the exception that if they do something that breaks the rules of the house then the notice could be much shorter. That exception seems incompatible with the bill. So if it became law I'd be happy enough for the current licensees to stay as I now know them well and we have no issues. But they'd be the last licensees we have.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121917358#Comment_121917358

My SIL lives near a university and has had student lodgers (mon-thur, room only) and students in digs (full week + meals) over the years but only for the college year. Many of her neighbours are the same. She said if this bill was passed she and her neighbours would stop for the reasons you say. Those students would then be competing for the small numbers of on-campus accommodation or full house rentals which are already under massive strain. Owners would also have to comply with standards for rentals - probably extra costs for owners, maybe inspections in their ppr?

Emblematic

There needs to be increased security for licencees which I think is fair if landlords are getting a tax-free income out of it, but not to the extent that the majority of landlords leave the market. Needs to be balanced.

Emblematic

Some of the bill seams reasonable. For example,

allow the licensee to enjoy peaceful and exclusive occupation of the room in the dwelling they are renting, unless the licensee has agreed to vacate the room on specified days, and to grant the licensee reasonable access to the dwelling’s facilities, for example the kitchen, bathroom and garden.

You do hear of cases sometimes reported on this forum of lodgers not having access to the kitchen to cook for example. In one case, the landlord who was a cook running a business out of the kitchen allowed lodgers to buy cooked food from him but otherwise no access.

MrRigsby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058240738/rent-a-room-scheme-experiences

I did this for years with mixed success. I’d bought my first house on my own and it really helped with the mortgage. Try to avoid anyone working in building or other trades which are likely to mean they arrive home very dirty . People aren’t so fussy about mucking up other people’s carpets etc . Middle aged men are likely to have been kicked out of the family home , you have to ask yourself why . Younger people are generally noisier. My best licensee was middle aged woman who was a very respectable tidy person and went home to visit her mother every weekend. My worst was a middle aged builder who lived like a pig and 2 years after I kicked him out had guards knocking on the door looking for him . Very nice man to speak to and paid for any damage caused without complaint but just mental . He was only with me a few months and in that time he wrote off 2 brand new cars drink driving . Stick with your instincts, if someone doesn’t feel right , choose someone else .