From:
Petrol stations with three or more fuel pumps have been told they must start displaying a sign showing the difference in their prices compared with the electric alternative within weeks.
*Blended rate of charging - 90% at home (night rate) and 10% public (fast charge)
Needless to say petrol stations without EV chargers are not happy.
Nope, it doesn't.
And in fact, it specifically says on the poster that it's based on blended 90:10 charging.
It quite clearly does not state that the cost to charge at that station (if it even had an EV charger) would be that price.
Just as the price of petrol/diesel is not specifically at that station.
If you or anyone else reading the poster only half reads it and makes incorrect assumptions, then that's on you.
€3.18 per 100km? With Pinergy on a smart plan, you would pay about €0.75 per 100km. Petrol and diesel are about 1000% more expensive. And you can buy a decent EV with tax and NCT for not much more than €1k now, so none of that silly "EVs are only for rich people" nonsense, thanks.
Stupid idea the above anyway. It is proving to be very hard to convince luddites that EVs are cheaper and cleaner, but this is not the way. A total waste of time and money for petrol station owners.
Put this advert on TV, Radio, Posters, etc. and I'd support it all day long.
It is utterly misleading to place this price comparison at the location where electricity costs more than petrol for a 100km journey. Most customers lets be honest, have little to no idea about their fuel consumption, let alone l/100km to kWh/100km conversions when all they do it look at the €/week figure.
It's akin to forcing restaurants to advertise that Fanta costs €2, and Water costs €1*, but they only serve Evian which costs €3. Utter nonsense tbh.
*If you drink tap water at home 90% of the time.
Further, it gives no incentive for providers of fast chargers to educe their rates, as they're actively being masked by the smallprint.
It suggests the price is cheaper when in-fact it's multiple times more expensive where the poster is displayed. That's misleading to consumers.
The fact that it's not achievable is my issue.
What other business is forced to advertise the benefits of something they don't sell ?
If you filled up at the fuel station the price for diesel and petrol will almost certainly be different too.
The point here is to demonstrate the stark difference in fuelling cost between vehicle types at the point of pain for motorists.
The poster doesn't say that price is achievable at that filling station. So there is no lie. Your assumptions and the rest of your post is irrelevant.
Pdf on this link
Link below. The pdf also has links on it.
https://www.seai.ie/publications/Fuel-Cost-Comparison-Methodology.pdf
If you charged at the fuel station where the sticker is, the price is not achievable. Therefore displaying cent per km figures for EV as a comparison dont work. It could be free, it could be 5c or 50c per km. If you charged an etron 55 at Applegreen (where these stickers must be displayed) and paid 70c per kwh and get 3km per kWh it's going to cost a heck of a lot more than the sticker says.
Clearly you didn't bother reading the methodology in the T&Cs.
People are definitely going to mention depreciation too
At the moment people are buying new EVs, not second hand ones due to FUD about batteries having to be replaced. 2 years ago I bought a 2018 Leaf 40 for €21k. Similar cars on donedeal range from 10k-20k but most are around 15k so 3k/year depreciation. My last ICE was 12k to buy and traded it for 1k 6 years later, so 2k/year. Yes, without doubt, EVs depreciate faster but not by as much as people think
What's the lie?
my ateca is currently doing 6.5L/100km 😣
my night rate tariff is 18 cents....looking at the table above my next car should be an EV if i don't want to pee money away.
Following the link on the poster and the methodology link gives this
I don't see a link to their calculations on this particular issue, maybe I'm missing something
There is a link to SEAI calculations on their website. I had a look through other day at the numbers. I have not checked your numbers.
I'm not sure signs in a petrol station will have a huge impact as I think people are fairy desensitised to a sign like this. There is a bit too much nuance in the figures to figure the real story behind how this is achieved with a glance at a sign
Personally I feel like the opposite of the hit piece style reviews like the fella from Belfast last week would give a better chance to explain the actual differences and the reality of the savings. Just real world actual cost and usage stats displayed for people to look at
We got an EV around a month ago. We bought a second hand EV after my ICE car kicked the bucket (it had 300k miles on it it, didn't owe me a penny!)
For us the savings on "fuel" are huge, roughly €150 on diesel (~2 tanks of a Astra estate) a month down to €15 a month on electricity. Nice big number, but there are some caveats around this saving.
People are definitely going to mention depreciation too, that's much harder to calculate cause it relies on what something will be worth in the future, and I don't have a clue. But I paid €17.5k for a 2 year old car that version of that is 7/ years old goes for €10/11k for at the moment (what it actually goes for), it doesn't look too bad, especially when you factor in €1000+ a year on fuel saving and €100 a year on tax. The car has a battery warranty of 8 years, so at least in this time scale im quoting above, there should not be any battery costs
I would have loved to have seen a break down like the above before we made the switch, Im sure plenty of people have given them here, but because I wasn't looking for an EV I never had a reason to be here!
Very good point. However I was surprised at the amount government take from fuel excise duties in a year. According to this, it was around €2 billion in 2021. Probably lower than usual that year due to Covid, but still a relatively small amount exchequer wise (Almost €100 billion that year).
I think this could backfire badly on them on the years ahead. It's a bait-and-switch at the heart of it at all.
Currently, more than 50% of the "cost" of a litre of petrol or diesel destined for road use is tax and excise (https://www.theaa.ie/motoring-advice/fuel-prices/).
That same 50%+ does not (currently) apply to EV motoring. Aside from motor tax, the other half's PHEV which runs almost exclusively in EV mode (charger at home, charger at work) escapes all of the excise duty (and subsequent higher VAT) than my diesel for equivalent distance commute.
That's simply not a sustainable model to maintain going forward - at some point, the loss of revenue from declining fuel sales will have to be made up with an alternative method to catch EV motoring as well.
My guess is it'll be based on a KM/year calculation but it will have to be priced such that it maintains the same income levels as current fuel excise does. That's going to be a huge hit for an EV driver to be suddenly faced with that's between:
If the intention is to encourage more to move to EV, then based on the current pricing they're in for an inevitable sharp shock in years to come when motoring excise is realigned to include EV's going forward.
It's a policy decision to encourage overnight EV charging to equalise grid demand. Pricing should reflect the recommend practice not the "I can't be bothered to save money" worst case scenario. It would be like the petrol cost only including petrol from expensive motorway service stations.
My home night rate on a smart meter averages out to pretty much 17.0c/kw for the 9 hours it lasts for (23:00-08:00). This is with Electric Ireland. Not the cheapest night rate around, but not the most expensive either.
Yeah but what % of the public have day/night/smart plans? The vast vast majority are on 24hr plans
Lots of plan's have night rate charging below 30c/kWh. My own electricity plan is 16.31c/kWh between 11pm and 8am.
They'll be basing figures on some kind of calculated average. Ideally the poster should have a link to what data was used for the figures.
Yes but those most likely to have already switched to EVs are those who home charging suits the most, hence why they switched.
The early adopters will have a far higher % of charging done at home than the general public, that's part of why they are early adopters.
I don't think you understood my post, please re-read.
The posters on forecourt as defined are misleading as they do not show like for like price comparisons (forecourt fuel Vs forecourt charging), whereas in this thread the actual figures have been related showing forecourt charging is currently more expensive than fuel.
My claim was visitors to this thread are far less likely to switch than people only seeing the posters, because the misinformation aspect has been debunked here
Figures for me aren't really adding up
€3.18/100km. A mix of public (10%) and home charging (90%).
It's previously been quoted by SEAI that a 7kW charger would add 100km in 2 hours (https://www.seai.ie/technologies/electric-vehicles/ev-charging/) so let's work off 14kWh/100km?
If 10% of this (1.4kWh) is on a public ecars tarrif of 68c/kWh that would cost about €0.95 on a public charger, and the remaining home charging of 12.6kWh would be done for €2.23 - or a home rate of 17.7c/kWh. Not many home rates below 30c/kWh at the moment as far as I am aware
I'm all for rubbing the cheaper prices in the faces of the petrol heads but can we at least get the figures right?
I've been driving EV since 2016, and I hate the nonsense being peddled by this sign. It should only be the cost of fast charging. EVs are a cheaper product, we don't need to lie. Lying in such ways only feeds into the people who are anti EV as they can actually disprove these signs.
Whatever you think but the notice going up in forecourts doesn't seem to match your claim and that is what people will be reading. The obvious intent is to change peoples mindset in relation to EVs - when they continually read that it would cost less to drive the same distance, they will be more likely to consider switching when the time comes.
it has also been pointed out very few EV drivers solely use forecourt (public chargers).
This thread has actually done more to discourage than the (misleading) campaign would have, as it's been pointed out here several times that forecourt EV chargers cost more per 100km than petrol or diesel!
But look at all the new non-EV drivers this thread has brought over to the EV forum.
