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Increase in road deaths - questions need to be asked

mullinr2

There seems to be an awful amount of road deaths since the new year especially among the younger road users. What needs to be done? It seems that speed is still a huge issue and that young drivers especially young men have not grasped the dangers of speeding. The crash in Carlow where 3 young people died was because of speed, there's no point sugar coating it. Do young men need more intense lessons and training than young women?

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NIMAN

Well that's pointless then. I wouldn't want my police force to spend their time responding to a call cos someone is parked illegally.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121905133#Comment_121905133

Any such age based limit would probably fall foul of anti-discrimination legislation. Let's just have limiters for ALL drivers, regardless of age.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121905133#Comment_121905133

How would this speed limiter work? Will it allow a driver go through the crossing outside the local school at 120kmh? If holidaying in France (or Germany) will it be possible to set the limit to 130kmh (or higher)? How will it know who and how old the driver is? What about cars permanently imported or exported from another country and what about the large number of cars already on the road?

A useful speed limiter is not simple and a simple speed limiter is not useful.

magicbastarder

Speed limiters are already mandatory on new cars (new car models introduced since July 2023) and are mandatory on all new cars from July 2024. Very hard to find info on how the manufacturers are implementing them though.

Tenzor07

I see people trying to apportion a large about of the blame for accidents to Young Male drivers which is extremely biased and unfair to that group of drivers. They already pay the highest levels of insurance and save every cent they have to buy a car which they look after.

I mean there's a group of drivers also out there who've possibly had their driving licences since the 1970's and haven't sat another driving test since, typically their cars are covered in small dents/scrapes and they can be heard revving the clutches off their cars.. They're nervous in traffic and on motorways, and I've counted multiple times I've seen the worst parking techniques possible where they damage their cars and others...

So it's not just one subset of the motoring public that needs attention.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896613#Comment_121896613

The road deaths situation in this country mirrors the asylum seeker situation. We have rules and legislation. We're just not applying or enforcing them.

I'm on the road on my own license a total of 15 years. I had one small tip when I was 19. The folly of youth. Was coming out of a village behind a slow moving jeep and was too close to it. He broke suddenly for a dog crossing the road and I knocked into the back of him. 50kmh tops. Only thing hurt was my ego. A good lesson learned. 14 years later, I still keep my distance.

In that time I've driven approx. 30k km per year. A total of 450k km, nearly half a mill. Once, I repeat once, ever was I breathalysed. Just before Xmas in Cork City, 6pm in the evening. I'd say it was in 2015. Once ever did I get done for speeding, by a Guard on a motorbike on the dual carriageway near Bunratty. Again I was about 21 and it smartened me. Doing about 113 in a 100 zone.

Since COVID I've encountered 1 checkpoint. Down in Clonakilty a month ago, 11am on a Sunday. Good time for it, would be many still half cut from the night before. Just checked my discs and waved me on.

The solution to the problem is very simple. More enforcement of the existing road traffic laws. More Guards in squad cars policing the road. But we've possibly the worst ever justice minister in charge and Garda morale is at an all time low, there's more leaving the force than we're recruiting. And the crap wages and poor morale is a big deterrent to new recruits.

Enforcement works, it's the best way. You won't chance drink or drug driving if you know you could be stopped. You won't speed if there's a chance of penalty points. It's human nature, if we can get away with it, we'll take the chance. The RSA is another NGO talking shop that should be wound up. Spend the money on traffic light cameras, more RTP Gardai or Go Safe vans.

Beta Ray Bill

Ireland is the only country in the world where people dying on the roads makes national news.

It's the most stupid thing in the world. In 2023 only 184 people died, compare that to the AT LEAST 500 (often near 600) suicides that occur annually in this country, yet we never hear a peep about in the local news never mind the national news.

Funding to suicide prevention services is dwarfed compared to funding for speed enforcement and GTC.

It's BS... Most of the Single vehicle collisions (of which there are many) are suicides, it's plainly obvious.

People are dying on the road due to acts of stupidity (stepping out into traffic, messing with the audio system in the car, on phone, etc) and reckless maneuvers (lane discipline, pulling out without looking, not paying due care and attention).

We also allow people, who have a stack of driving convictions to drive cars.

Blaming speed is the easy pass... when will people realise that? It's a get out of jail for the people in charge because the quality of driving on our roads is so crap, and ultimately they are responsible for that.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908741#Comment_121908741

Reading a bit about them in general, they are more speed warning systems and can be ignored by keeping your foot on the accelerator.

They use a combination of GPS, camera and radar to help identify the speed limit but with an average age of 9 years, it will be a decade before the average Irish car has speed assist technology. Retrofitting it to an older car wouldn't be practical.

For learner drivers, who are more likely to buy a used car it would probably be even longer thwan ten years before the average learner has a car with speed assist technology.

It has its limits (no pun intended) - GPS data, maps and speed limits will need to be kept up to date - is this going to be available for a car for ten, twenty or more years after it is first sold? Temporary speed limits would be impractical to keep updated. Cameras don't work too well in poor weather, low sun or complex interchanges with multiple different speed signs.

There's no magic silver bullet to replace proper enforcement.

Quigs Snr

Motorist here. But also a cyclist (for sport, not commuting). Having peddled about 400,000km in my life you tend to notice things. You are always an object of hate for drivers, no matter how well you complying to the rules of the road. I will be generous and say that maybe 10% of the population understands how the rules of the road work for cyclists. The reverse is probably also true for the cyclists themselves.

But this isn't a cyclist vs motorist rant, since I am both anyway. Since Covid I have noticed a very significant increase in angry, aggressive driver behaviour (I am not talking about motorists being held up by a big bunch in an urban area, I am talking mostly cars verbally abusing and driving dangerously around single cyclists on wide country roads where 4 vehicles could overtake you side by side). Its not really younger folks either.. you do get the lads in their early 20s being retards of course.. that's as perennial as the late late toy show... but for me (and folks I talk to) its more middle aged folks. Both men and increasingly women too.

I don't know why, but something has changed in our collective attitudes. And not for the better.

More Music

The RSA only ever give actual numbers of road deaths. They never give per capita which would help to show where we stand and how we are doing in fight against road deaths.

Sadly, as long as people are on the roads there will be road deaths. It's like smoking or drinking, you can't have zero smoking related deaths as long as a certain number of people are smoking. There will always be a certain amount of deaths in whatever activity as long as that activity is taking place in sufficient numbers.

We have EU data on all sorts of things per 100,000 of population. So where does Ireland stand in relation to other European countries?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/323869/international-and-uk-road-deaths/

Surely there will be an increase in road deaths if we have more people living in the country and more vehicles on the road?

Is the RSA's Vision Zero actually possible? "No road deaths or serious injuries on the roads by the year 2050".

Could we have a Vision Zero for drinking? No alcohol related deaths or serious injuries by the year 2050. Does this sound feasible while 67% of people drink. (The Healthy Ireland Survey tells us that 67% of people have consumed alcohol in the previous 6 months).

Obviuosly it goes without saying, one death is one too many. But do we need to be realisitc about this?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909188#Comment_121909188

The RSA vision is just nonsense and they know it. Catchy headline more concerned with a bit of PR and keeping the funding flowing.

NIMAN

The rsa, for all their talk, is just another quango, with folk chatting for the sake of holding on to their cushy jobs.

No matter what they do, we have a baseline number of road deaths that are always going to happen. One year or two, it might go higher, then might go lower. But they will never be eradicated as long as we have humans driving a tonne and a half of metal at up to 120km/h.

TheRiverman

There is a high rate of appalling driving on our roads every day. Speeding, overtaking on continuous white lines, tailgating, ignoring stop signs, bad road positioning when turning right and left, veering out into oncoming traffic when behind a vehicle that is turning left, wrong lanes and wrong or no use of indicators at roundabouts, I've had two near misses in the past two weeks where stupid drivers never looked right and drove straight out in front of me when I was already on the roundabout. Then go into any carpark at shopping centres etc and there are always idiots who blatantly ignore direction arrows and no entry signs and lines on the ground, also the number of people who can't reverse properly is beyond belief. I haven't specifically mentioned Dual Carriageways and Motorways above, what I see on them at times is frightening. They should be the safest roads we drive on.

Lack of enforcement of the laws and rules is a huge problem that is not being addressed, but it is still not as big as the lack of responsibity by many drivers to change their own behaviour.

amacca

I think a lot of people lose all respect for a system when it has clearly unrealistic objectives

Doesnt enforce existing rules (and not just rules of the road)

And doesnt drill down into the stats to target what the main factors are

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908625#Comment_121908625

Would it? I don’t think so to be honest sure there’s loads of age based rules for driving already.

not disagreeing either if limiters are mandatory it should just be it for everyone whether you’re 17 or 70. I imagine anyone who has a problem with this is a serial speeder

I’d be delighted to have one tbh stress of keeping an eye on the gauge to make sure I’m under the limit is a pain in the balls on the likes of motorway etc.

TheRiverman

Something I left out when I posted yesterday, all the idiots who drive with fog lights on when there is no fog apart from the bit between their ears.

NIMAN

Another 4 young lives wasted overnight.

Again, another single vehicle incident.

3d4life

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933729#Comment_121933729

"another single vehicle incident." and in another country !

Woodie40

There are thousands of people still driving in Ireland with no full licence, no N or L plates on their car. Why are we issuing provisional licences to these people? Why is there still no enforcement of this?

nigeldaniel

I will add my two cents worth. First, generally awareness has nose dived on the last few years. I have seen people up close when driving literally getting within 10ft of a car in front, before they even notice the car in front. Not indicating correctly or at all. Secondly, people's tempers do appear to be on the rise, like a few other posters here; I quit cycling due to some deeply unsettling behaviour from motorists. In short people need to look at their coping skills.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933894#Comment_121933894

4 young Irish people are dead, no need to be pedantic.

hoodie6029

A truck driver killed in Wexford today too. Second single vehicle truck crash in a little over a week that’s claimed a life.

The N30 around Clonroche is a brutal old back road. Never upgraded. Very busy with traffic from New Ross and Waterford heading to Enniscorthy and the M11. Loads of livestock being moved with jeeps and lorries on it too. I see some brutal driving on it regularly from all road users.

No run off or lay-bys or hard shoulders. Lots of farm and house entrances. Not fit for the traffic it is asked to take.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933964#Comment_121933964

They need some effort at detection. Correlate car ownership with dodgy licences or people with points and check the drivers of these vehicles. Strictly prohibit driving vehicles with L plates without accompanying drivers, so that lazy parents are not driving around with L plates on motorways. This kind of thing would be more use than singing silly songs on the TV.

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908882#Comment_121908882

We still have the belief that car is king in Ireland. I’m in Spain atm and all cars stop at zebra crossings to let people walk across the road. There are a few in my home town in Ireland and they are dangerous to use, so many cars just motor on through without a care in the world.

I notice the same in car parks, a car driving through a car park seems to think they have precedence, I see people running across as there is a car coming and they give a wave of apology for inconveniencing the driver by making them slow down a bit. I don’t cycle but I see the behaviour of drivers on the road with regards cyclists and it’s not good.

I think that will need to change, car is not always king. Pedestrians and cyclists have a right to use our roads and car parks without feeling they should be yielding to the driver behind the wheel.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936360#Comment_121936360

This would stop if they enforced those crossings, a job that could be facilitated by cameras.

[Deleted User]

For anyone who wants to submit their views on the RSA

https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/bd619-call-for-submissions-review-of-road-safety-authority/#how-to-get-involved

Woodie40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936360#Comment_121936360

Great post and very true.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936360#Comment_121936360

Strange that, as unless they are lost, the majority of pedestrians in a car park (aptly named) arrived and will depart by car. So I'd say the car is definitely king in the car park

ARX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908835#Comment_121908835

Other countries report road accidents (including non-fatal accidents) in national media. It's not a peculiarly Irish thing.

For example, from the German tabloid Bild, the best-selling newspaper in Europe:

Yesterday: Schwerer Unfall in Sachsen: Renault prallt in Auerbach gegen Baum | Regional | BILD.de

Two days ago: Landkreis Miesbach – Zwei Frauen sterben bei Frontal-Crash auf Landstraße | Regional | BILD.de

Three days ago: Unfall bei Haltern am See: 1 Toter und 6 Verletzte bei Frontal-Crash | Regional | BILD.de

"horror-crash" site:bild.de - Google Search

Hyperbollix

It's Gen Z and phone use IMO. I live in a very rural area, close to a GAA pitch. The GAA pitch has been there 40 years and up until around 5 to 8 years ago the roads in the locality were safe for walking and cycling on, even in the busy 5pm to 7pm window. Now, I wouldn't walk or cycle on them for any money. What's changed since 2016 - 2019? Kids born around the turn of the millenium are now driving is the answer.

20 / 25 years ago there was obviously the odd eegit roaring around over the speed limit, usually late at night. That phenomenon is now a daily occurrence and it's often in the middle of the afternoon and especially at GAA training time between 6 and 9pm. The culprits are always young lads, barely able to see out over the dashboard of their Golf or Passat, complete with canon exhaust and they treat the roads around here like their personal race track.

Young drivers can cry all they like but the stats bare it out. It's not middle aged or elderly drivers that are dying like flys in single vehicle collisions late on weekend nights. It's mainly male drivers under 30. And phone addiction is a huge factor. There's no one going to tell me that people of 20 years old aren't glued to their phones as they bomb along country roads at 1am when they know theres not going to be a chance of a Gard to be seen.