Old thread seems to be permanently locked. It will be interesting if anything can come of this at last.
Threadbanned Posters:
Of course I am disputing him.
You're allowed dispute the gardai, but the DPP is off limits? It doesn't work that way. No one is above criticism if they make mistakes.
The only “80-90% sure “ evidence that Bailey was introduced in passing to Sophie? That evidence?
Yeah that’s really going to sway a jury - there’s only one thing certain of bringing a trial against Bailey before he died, is that he would be acquitted, and rightfully so - Paddy Power wouldn’t even give you odds it would be such a certainty
The one in the mud on the verge seems small enough, strange to pull in that close ot the verge and not the middle. Someone avoiding something or taking the opening fast?
I had heard a local teenager was found to be looking through her windows - that could misinformation of which there is much in this case.
And that’s why I won’t go point to point with you- you’re totally disputing an independent office who TWICE refused to send this case forward.
You’d argue black is white if it helped your case so no, I won’t be drawn on my opinion with you which is something I’m absolutely entitled to make on this forum - it’s not the politics forum - I don’t have to justify everything I say
I don't know but it could be..
Also I'm assuming the tyre marks on the gravel in picture 1 are Shirley's but if so whose are those on the l/h verge. Seen more clearly in picture - they end just above Sophie's head (which I've cropped out of the picture)
I've gone through the evidence. I disagree with it. Read my previous post.
Do you agree that for example to dismiss the evidence of a first person witness to Bailey saying he met Sophie is ignoring vital evidence? And evidence like that and others should have been tested before a jury?
Need your opinion people. Excuse poor quality but this is a part of one of the first pictures taken on 23rd. I can't show you all of it as it contains the body.
What I'm curious about is this. Does anyone think that the object at the base of the gatepost could be the second breeze block that was missing from the pumping station. Or am I just letting my imagination run away with me ?
@tobefrank321 did you get to point 16 from the report, perhaps you should have started reading from the bottom:
ANALYSIS OF THE EVIDENCE TO LINK IAN BAILEY TO THE SOPHIE TOSCAN DU PLANTIER MURDER
16. General
A prosecution against Bailey is not warranted by the evidence.
Do you agree with that?
So you're not going to list out the errors?
You made a big show about errors but now won't engage?
Regards the DPP report its an utter shambles. The first 3 pages and page 1 in particular is full of holes and contradictions many of which I went through yesterday.
There are others. To give one example the DPP makes not a single mention of the cut to Baileys head or scalp in his 44 page report despite Bailey frequently commenting on it down through the years and describing it as a wound from a turkey.
Yet the DPP completely ignored this wound and doesn't even reference it!
He also discounted on page 2 the first person witness account of someone saying Bailey told them he met Sophie and finds its not convincing evidence they met!
There are other contradictions on the first page that would be laughed out of a circuit court as proof of innocence in a drink driving case! Yet the DPP gets away with this "proof of innocence".
Its completely amateurish stuff from him.
Is he the alleged peeping tom character that's been mentioned before?
I never commented on any of that dialogue - nice try - you seem to be continually on the offensive on this thread - defending your belief of Baileys guilt- defending the Gardai despite even the DPP practically laughing them out of their office - I wouldn’t dream of engaging with you on a point by point argument -you’d just post misinformation and send the thread into circles - not a chance.
So list out the errors then. We can go through them one by one. Lets play armchair generals on this one.
Were you one of the people who believed the gardai waved Shirley through the crime scene on her way to the dump by any chance?
Complete and utter rubbish - not one word of that post is in anyway reflective of the expected capability of the medical and law enforcement bodies of 1997- not one word- there were massive and fundamental errors made in the first hours of the investigation - that’s totally obvious to anyone familiar with this case
FWIW, I think it was an accurate statement, they did make a mistake by not following protocol and training, however I do have understanding and compassion for their hesitation, they probably did do about the best they could based on their experience. I think they did a poor job on checking the welfare of the victim, and understanding time of death, but it can be claimed they did a decent job on preservation, and non-contamination at least initially. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of significant contamination that I have seen, or at least none that has been confirmed.
In this picture you can see the vintage French hot water bottle on the floor beside the bed. Had Sophie gotten out of bed in the night it would probably still have been under the covers. I know I always put mine on the floor when I get up in the morning.
Before the boreen from Kealfada into Dreenane was established. The only route into Dreenane was from that exact area. It’s probably still passable.
Gardai damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they don't approach the body they are criticised. If they approach the body and get their shoe prints everywhere they are also criticised. There's no winning with some people. Overall they did the best they could with a few mistakes.
Regards a local doctor establishing a time of death, on a cold winter morning with temperatures almost at freezing, this wouldn't have been straightforward.
It’s clear even from the posts here that one of the biggest early mistakes of this investigation was not establishing a good solid time of death range - it could have ruled out and ruled in a completely different set of people - a local doctor could have done this - the local Gardai in charge at the time were despicable - an episode of Columbo made 20 years earlier as a piece of crime fiction would have given them some simple basics of what to do not do to a crime scene
It’s possible she wasn’t up long. Being winter and before getting fully dressed for the day she put on her dressing gown to keep warm. After granola for breakfast she may have wanted some bread. Whilst standing cutting the bread she sees someone out the window at the little stone barn. With the knife in her hand she goes out to them and catches up with them at the gate.
I agree with you on this one. That would be solid evidence. The combination of boot prints and DNA evidence on Sophies boot would be difficult to explain away.
He - I believe - was suspect 1. He was an oddball who lived the other side of the hill behind Sophie's house.
Who is Jeremiah Scully? I dont remember coming across the name before in relation to the case.
Sophie rarely used the back door when entering or leaving the house. There was a rubbish bin just outside the back door that Shirley Foster reckoned would have been knocked over by anyone using the back door.
Speaking of rubbish, was it searched?
Thinking the same. Not as risky if it was still dark. they did their clear up and put out the lights..
Agreed on your first point, however I would say we have two pieces of evidence from an unknown person at the scene of the body from a murder, a boot print, and DNA. If both of those belonged to the same person, and that person was not a guard, I think it's safe to say it is a slam-dunk case imo, very difficult to explain away. This person would be convicted on this evidence alone imo.
If the Gardaí at the scene were scared that the killer might be still around they'd hardly call the local doctor and priest to the area.
Yes.
Jesus you're giving me the heebie jeebies there, I apologise for being so dismissive about it earlier. I still don't think it happened that way, but I guess it is not a totally unreasonable assumption.
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