Old thread seems to be permanently locked. It will be interesting if anything can come of this at last.
Threadbanned Posters:
So nearly 20 years after the event.
Yes, more nonsense
Even the Guards didn't describe the scratches like that!!!!!
Returning in a blue Ford fiesta at 7.30am? The blood on the door though ? Did they return to the cottage to get something connected to them which they’d given to Sophie the previous day?
Just re-read the second part of your comment, a lot of speculation in there tbh which I won’t comment on, However I presume that you are aware that there is other forensic evidence at the scene also, beyond the boot and unknown DNA? @chooseusername
The article was too long, I left out this bit;
"Mr Brooke made a statement to Bantry gardaí in 2021 and says he was told this year that an artist was being employed by gardaí to visit people who had “seen the wounds to Mr Bailey’s hands”. He then made and submitted his own sketch."
They employed an "artist"!!!! I kid you not.
The date of the article was Oct 2023. by Senan Moloney. (Baloney Maloney)
Is there something preventing the Gardai providing their own updated sketch of the wounds they saw, am I missing something? They literally saw his hands a few hours after the murder occurred. Why would they need to go to anyone else at all, especially 20 years later I don’t know
One thing which wasn't done at the time and undoubtedly should have been was fibre takings. It was best practice, at post mortem, to tape the clothing and body of the victim to capture alien hair, fibres and other debris.
Nowadays, had those tapings been taken, there would be the potential to try and extract DNA from them. It has been done, very successfully, in cases older than Sophie's.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I'm just trying to point out things that should have been done and weren't and which could potentially have identified Sophie's killer either in 1996 or today.
How does this even hold up as evidence. So we got a number of witnesses and employed a new artist 20 years later and from number of sketches based on witnesses confirming we have created final sketch as to what we think the marks looked like. Mind blowing stuff. I mean if you get another 2/3 artists they will all come up with different sketches as well to this one.
Wouldn't storing the clothing do the same job
Don't know if they did that
Of course it's speculation, maybe I should preface everything with IMO, AFAIK.etc. You can comment away.
I'm well aware that there is probably a lot of forensic evidence from the scene that you and I are not privy to.
Not really. Th whole point of taping is to remove all loose debris before it sheds. Once you start removing the clothing and packaging it you are losing evidence. In a case like this where there has been a struggle and therefore close contact between the victim and assailant it should be standard practice.
You said taping at post mortem
Surely removing clothing at PM will preserve even more evidence if done with victim in a body bag
Well they couldn't improve on this, could they?
Note, it's the right hand, Mr. Brooke's is of the left hand, so it may account for the scratches being different. ( or maybe Brookes did it in the mirror?)
You seem to take issue with everything I say so I can only assume that you too have worked extensively in the field of forensic investigation and I will therefore bow to your superior knowledge.
No , but I have accumulated a degree of scepticism about some of your postings
I don't doubt your credentials
If you care to go on line and type in "Murder Manual" you will be able to access the College of Policing guide to murder investigation This is the definitive handbook used by all UK police forces and will tell you all you need to know. Should save us both a lot of time.
If I'm not mistaken, it was @tomhammer.. who it seems took pride in not reading the DPP's analysis of the evidence submitted by AGS against Bailey so its a safe assumption that recommending other reading material will be a waste of your time (which some here do appreciate!)
Just to be clear was there an original drawing done in a Garda station in the days after the murder ….of the cuts on his hands and arms ..wasn't there? Or is my imagination running away with me?
Either way. If the below is true, these cuts were still visible on 31st December- that means the cuts were deep.
So the question is did Bailey get them from slaughtering the turkeys or from cutting down Christmas trees? It’s one or the other.
“Mr Harrington also said he saw scratches on the backs of Mr Bailey’s hands and arms when he and a Det Garda Culligan called to Mr Bailey’s home near Schull on December 31st, 1996. Mr Bailey had said he got those cutting down a Christmas tree with Saffron Thomas, a daughter of his partner. Mr Harrington said he grew up in the country and the scratches appeared “like briar cuts”
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ian-bailey-had-scratches-on-hands-court-told-1.2083177
From the article linked;
"Cross-examined by Ronan Munro, for Mr Bailey, he (Mr Harrington) said he went to the murder scene on December 26th, 1996, and the body was still there and the scene was preserved."
FFS.
Well, how would you know yourself for sure, if you did both things in the same day, and only noticed the scratches as the day went on?
From the DPP report:
The evidence of D/Gda. John Culligan and D/Gda. Denis Harrington demonstrate more discrepancies in the Garda evidence. On 31 December 1996 D/Gda. Denis Harrington noticed that Ian Bailey had a lot of scratches on the back of both hands. A few days before most of the scratches were meant to have been on the left hand. Bailey asserts that some of the marks on him were obtained as a result of killing the turkeys on Sunday 22 December 1996.
Wasn't there a video made of Mr Bailey at the Christmas morning charity swim in Schull?
I think it was taken by someone who was home for the holidays - the Christmas morning swim being an annual highlight of the season.
I even think I've seen it; but I've tried poking around on the Internet just now and can't find it. Has anyone got a link?
This was only a day or two after the murder: and Bailey said subsequently that the recent crime was the principal topic of conversation and red hot gossip was flying round the town. Naturally enough!
Apparently he was wearing a long dark overcoat. But could his hands be seen on the video clip?
I wouldn't trust a word these Guards say for a traffic stop never mind a murder.
iirc from previous discussions of the video, he wasn't making any attempt to hide his hands, no gloves, no keeping them in pockets.
Does your scepticism not get reduced every time bjsc posts back-ups to her original assessments, or is it one-way street of increasing scepticism?
Yeah it’s a good point - I guess he could have got a few from the tree cutting and a few from a turkey claw - was there an original mapping drawing done at the time in the Garda station?
Statement of Garda O'Leary
I think he's only sceptical if he doesn’t get the answer he wants. Which is ironic because that's what has caused so many of the problems with the murder investigation.
Attempting to gaslight, but failing miserably.
Thanks - hard to keep track of everything.
I’ve never wrestled a turkey so can’t comment but you’d imagine the scars would be deep nearly requiring bandages.
I’ve cut back trees through the years- depending on the tree you could get “marked” - some species of pine tree can be a bit prickly - others not so much.
Briars are a b1tch - I actually got scratched recently- you stop dead in your tracks to remove the thorns and extricate yourself from the area asap, but slowly. Obviously if you’re in a tussle with someone that’s a different story.
While I don’t believe Bailey is involved, I’ve always felt those marks are briar marks- but really we’d need proper photo evidence - drawings 20 years on or whatever could easily be made to look like briar marks - But Garda and witness testimony of briar marks from the time is strong too - if you didn’t know the specifics you’d say “briar” marks as a catch all
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