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Help please regarding new handicap system

ncawley

I live in london. Im a member of a golf club there and an overseas member of a golf club in Ireland. I dont get an opportunity to play many comps- I played 6 in 2023 all in ireland as I spend a lot of the summer at home.

so.... i wish to enter the matchplay comp in London this year- they say I need to have 10 entries in my handicap record for 2023 of which 3 must be comps and rest can be general play. results from Ireland are recognised under new world system.

Question- can I play rounds with my buddies in next few weeks and record them as general play? In the old days golf rounds wouldnt alter your handicap due to winter rules. Is this still the case and general play can only resume later in the year?

Please forgive the basic nature of this question. Im keen to play in the matchplay as I got to the semi final last year and they had no such requirement so all new...

Regards

ncawley

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coillcam

Depends if the club accept 6 scores from 2023 + 4 new scores from 2024 to make up the 10.

Otherwise you're short of the 10 required rounds for 2023.

Regardless of this you can enter general play rounds on your record now BUT only if they are played in counting conditions.

Eg my local parkland has placing everywhere and winter tees. So the course is not in counting condition so I cant enter a general play round.

If you go play a links course it would be much more likely to be in counting. Still worth checking with the course ahead of time. It's possible they have the the course turned off on the system so you can't enter a score.

ncawley

Thanks Coillcam for that.

Yes - as long as I have 10 counting events before end march its ok.

I'm back in Ireland next weekend - i'll be in the Dublin and Galway areas- anyone know any courses which are in counting condition?

Regards

Nbc

spacecoyote

Basically any links in the area should work, problem might be getting out on them

If you can stretch your legs down a little further south, the like of Arklow are running opens that are qualifying conditions midweek

coillcam

Just a thought but I don't know how it would be perceived by the club hc secretary and Golf Ireland. In theory you might be able to get two scores from a course on your record.

Eg Play the front 9 as one score, submit and attest this. Then play the back 9 in the same manner. It would be two WHS scores on your record.

However, I'm not sure if the app or Golf Ireland allows for this. It's arguable that this behaviour that bandits could exploit to massage out their index.

The hc secretary might also delete two 9s and re-create an 18 hole score instead. It would be clear you intended to play 18.

Alternatively just play two different courses for 9 each on the same day. That's a much more reasonable scenario.

El Guapo!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121739070#Comment_121739070

I thought there was some rule against submitting 2 qualifying scores on the same day?

Could be misremembering but I'm nearly sure I read something like that before.

coillcam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121739638#Comment_121739638

There may well be tbh. Def two scores from the same course would send out the bat signal for the hc secretary.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121739638#Comment_121739638

I often play two rounds a day (on different courses) and submit both (albeit with a poor final 9!!!)

El Guapo!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740590#Comment_121740590

Yeah now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure the rule is against sticking in two scores from the same course on the one day.

Golfgraffix

Nope, if done it a few times. App allows it

El Guapo!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740694#Comment_121740694

Ok thanks. I was convinced I had read the opposite on here somewhere.

spacecoyote

Now is the time to get that in though if you're planning to work the system, as once the changes come in, it holds a 9 hole score until it has a second 9 to match it to, as far as I know

Golfgraffix

Still haven’t seen it that’s been ratified here, like in the US. Wonder if it goes through

billy3sheets

A few clarifications required here I think.

1. You must submit 54 holes to get a handicap, can be 6×9s, 3x18s or any combination thereof.

2. System will accept scores from any course but handicap secretary may not or there may be a local rule mandating that they must all be on the course you're a member of.

3. You are likely going to be required to submit physical cards signed by a GUI member and fill in an application form too.

Best to check first with your Handicap Committee what is required.

ncawley

Thanks Guys for responses

I have a handicap for many years. I simply would like to enter my UK club's matchplay events in 2024 as I enjoy matchplay and they have a new rule that insists on 10 WHS entries. I have 6. I need to have another 4 over the next few weeks. the problem is that I work most weekends so my only opportunity is generally when I go home to Dublin one weekend a month.

So next weekend I am happy to play sat and sun and can get a mate to tag along and do two general play entries for me. But I dnt wnat to go to a course and find out afterwards that the round doesnt count for whatever reason- winter rules in operation etc. How can I find out prior to playing whether all will be ok?

cheers guys

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742218#Comment_121742218

You'll need to ring the club and ask if the course is in qualifying condition for handicaps. Basically if you're allowed to lift and place in the rough it's non-qualifying (there are a few other conditions but I think this is the main one).

Unless you're playing a links course the answer will almost certainly be that rounds are not qualifying.

ncawley

Cheers Awec,

Yip I guess the links would be an option. Anyone know any dry parklands that might be qualifying ?

JVince

Try woodbrook in bray. Beautiful course and no winter rules in late Nov when I was there.

WHS available for casual golf by visitors

coillcam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742731#Comment_121742731

Very unlikely and Golf Ireland considers winter golf as Oct-Mar. The vast majority of courses are non-counting during this period. It would be a waste of your time calling parkland courses to be blunt.

You'll have to pick links courses and call their pro shops. Ask specifically if the course is playing in counting condition for a WHS score and if the tees are "turned on" in the Golf Ireland system. To be doubly sure, keep your cards from the rounds you play and hand them over to your HC secretary back in England. I know they will accept overseas scores in my home course but require the physical cards and they are meant to contact the course to verify you played.

It's all hassle but you'll need to put in the leg work here. Get a list of links courses nearby and start banging out the calls. Hopefully, you get it all sorted in time and some nice weather on the links!

DiegoWorst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121739070#Comment_121739070

A lot of handicap secretaries are really frustrated by this loophole.

Technically it is allowed, but very much frowned upon. Some clubs have had a torrid time with handicap builders using this method to rapidly lose good scores off the end of their records.

Submitting 2 scores on the same course on the same day is a grey area. The app will allow it, but it may be stopped by handicap committees. The original instruction from Golf Ireland was to watch out for and remove the second score - unless it was a scheduled 27 or 36 hole scratch cup. Golf Ireland appear to have backtracked on this.

spacecoyote

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742731#Comment_121742731

At a very speculative guess, I'd say try:

Blessington Lakes

Millicent

Both usually dry parkland that have been known to have winter qualifiers from time to time

paulos53

Do Carton House still have qualifying competitions every Friday?

Scott Tenorman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121746151#Comment_121746151

Millicent isn’t qualifying at the moment. Course is still very wet.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741263#Comment_121741263

no it's not going to happen like that

it will just add an expected score for the other 9, but the calculation will change

at least im pretty sure that is what I read last week.... now that I'm on the inside 😎

Golfgraffix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121748400#Comment_121748400

They’ve missed an opportunity to level up 9 hole scores by not doing it.

bakerbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121749694#Comment_121749694

Have out lot ever been proactive.

Never.

coillcam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121748400#Comment_121748400

What is it exactly?

Say you play 13 holes and retire injured. Or it's a 12 hole comp in counting condition.

Is there an algorithm to extend it out and make an 18 total..?

Golfgraffix

At the moment when you have a 9 hole counting round it adds an expected score (17 points I think) to your round.

In the US, your 9 hole round does not count until you have another one, then the two are added together.

spacecoyote

And they're changing to allow qualifying for 10-17 hole rounds too with a similar approach to what is currently in place for 9?

Sorbet

Newbie question - I’ve only submitted my cards last summer to get my initial handicap. Played casual golf that summer and only realised that you get out of counting rounds territory when the weather changes. So have no counting rounds since and want to improve that this season.

When you want to submit a round as a counting round that is also doubling as a stableford competition, can you scratch a hole or do you need to score strokeplay for every hole?

spacecoyote

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881271#Comment_121881271

You can scratch a hole, no problem. When you do, the system should give you two options:

1. Played the hole but didn't score, or,

2. Didn't play the hole

If you scratched, you pick option 1 and the system will sort the rest for handicap purposes