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Ireland - now considered one of most vulnerable countries in the EU (defense wise)

aidanodr

From article in todays ( 03/03/2024 ) Sunday Times ..

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/36d59ed0-25e2-46b1-8f14-76fb231c02ea?shareToken=5623c8614285f74aaadf02a6e62290ef

I would tend to agree with this + add dependence on UK?

The government is coming under intense pressure to increase the strength of the Defence Forces and has been accused by critics of free-riding on the protection offered by Nato.

The Irish Navy, numbers wise is at about 755 as of last June. So small, there is not enough to man the ships, of which most are parked up in Cork / Haulbowline

The Irish Army, numbers wise is at 7550 active personnel and 1706 in the reserves ( Figures - end of 2023 ) ..

Lets say our airforce is pretty much non existent.

( Compare all above to ESTONIA at end of post who's pop is 1.3m )

Then there is pretty much NO military radar .. so we have no clue of what's flying over us or in our Exclusive Economic Zone let alone in our actual waters or over head in our country.

Every day I keep hearing we are a very very very rich country, yet here we have a completely defenseless country due to years, decades of neglect, political and otherwise.

Personally I think the jig is up, the emperor has no clothes.

BTW - I am NOT even getting into this whole NEUTRALITY thing we have going on and whether we should be or not. Regardless, DEFENSE is not a thing one can nor should leave slide just because you are Neutral. We still have to & should be able to defend ourselves rather than depend on the kindness of strangers. You can be a Neutral country but also have a strong defense system.

"For Ireland, whether they are neutral or not, investing in your armed forces will help to deter any enemy. Even if you are a neutral nation, you have to be able to show you will defend what is yours.”

Finally we have the top IT companies based here. Surely we should have the best, second to none Hybrid warfare capability ( cyber attacks etc ) .. but no, we dont, again come up real short here apparently.

Ireland is now considered one of the most vulnerable countries in the European Union to conventional warfare and Russian hybrid tactics, involving everything from disinformation campaigns to sabotage of critical infrastructure.

So this article should surely be a wake up call? Discuss ..

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Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121857943#Comment_121857943

And.their airforce has almost 200 aircraft flying or on order including fighter jets..

cj maxx

I googled iceland and nato . They don’t have an army at all , or host nukes etc.

unknown

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cj maxx

that might be the way to go . I know Russia has no interest in occupying us but being a nato country would stop them sniffing around . After all, all this country has did is to export our youth and abandoned all sense of obligation to its citizens . And whoring itself as a tax haven to multinationals who would think nothing of pulling out if we actually charged them at proper tax rates. The high horse brigade can bark all they like about our ‘neutrality ’ but when push comes to shove , we’re all hoping that western countries win

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859339#Comment_121859339

It's a very cunning defense plan. Lull would-be invaders into a false sense of security by not doing anything about defense - and then hit them with the fancy secret weapons, which don't exist either. That's the invaders tricked twice.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866903#Comment_121866903

That gave me a giggle

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866235#Comment_121866235

Iceland is a microstate of a few 100k people. I think rest of NATO (i.e. mainly US) pretty much look after it for them (?).

Other countries in Europe (apart from us) who spend nothing or close to nothing (0.2 % GDP for us acc. to google) are quite similar.

They have low populations (much lower than ours), small areas, and more openly outsource defence and security (e.g. Iceland being a NATO member), they don't play-act at having a military, and a policy of "military neutrality".

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867183#Comment_121867183

Exactly . It’s how we should play it too . Iceland is way out in the North Atlantic while we are only a short distance from mainland Europe and technically have a land border with a nato founder . It would give the guberment a reason to actually stop being lay abouts and take Irelands security seriously .

Economics101

This may be paywalled, but its interesting. Ireland is really exposed.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2024/03/08/not-the-usual-dire-warning-why-a-prediction-about-russia-invading-the-eu-spooked-diplomats/

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867219#Comment_121867219

Might be the choice before us if the world keeps heading to hell in a handbasket - Iceland/microstate approach or treating Irish military/defence more like other small, peaceful EU members.

A more dangerous Europe/world means we could have to more openly allow others to take over these jobs and it all becomes more visible to citizens here (assuming other countries are willing, you still suffer a loss of control, he who pays the piper and all that).

Or we will have to step up and do more ourselves.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867279#Comment_121867279

We should go ourselves. Why would anyone die for us if we won't even do the minimum to protect and deter ..

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121866903#Comment_121866903

Same old bullsht that we have no defence whatsoever. Same schoolyard exaggeration that if you have little that means you have absolute zero.

Ireland has a small lacking military, therefore absolutely nothing whatsoever has ever been done about defense. And the Russians, well they're amazing they can invade anywhere. Ok not Odesa, a short hop from Russias coast, but like anywhere else. Definitely Ireland.

I mean I don't know how it would be done, how many or which vessels would be used, no real details or reasons to think this is feasible, no knowledge of this topic, I can't see why they might do so, or how they would maintain this magic invasion, there's no structure to my belief, I haven't thought beyond the initial stage, but yes definitely because thats what came out of my hole.

Sure Morocco is going to invade us too lads. Lets spend a load of money randomly to fight the Moroccans and their imminent invasion, plans for which I have found, once again, up my hole. Where theres a wealth of useful information, a veritable library of top secret files.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868191#Comment_121868191

We have a military but it is inadequate. Even a half mad wealthy multimillionaire with some local looney backing could take over. Russia could take the Western ports and hold on for quite a bit if they wanted to. All we need do is invest in a bit more defence. A few capable aircraft a functioning navy a well equipped army backed by a capable reserve.

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868246#Comment_121868246

But a half mad wealthy multimillionaire couldn't now could he.

Lets have a quick glance at the numbers. Rounded off, 7500 army active and 1500 army reserve.

You're Mick O'leary, you didn't get the extra capacity at Dublin airport, and you've decided to cease control. Ok. Go, tell me how it goes down.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868274#Comment_121868274

Import a few hundred mercenaries sure I have the aircraft to fly them directly from where ever. Take the Dail and the major TV and radio stations shoot any opposition set up roadblocks. Tell the World I'm in charge..

Anyway all I mean was we are very weak militarily UK, Russia or any seagoing nation could invade if it wanted to..

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868311#Comment_121868311

That’s exactly the point . We as a country have left our defence to other countries. Im not saying we should have a mental approach. Just ships and air operations

[Deleted User]

What about all tht lovely Huawei infrastructure we have? China will be upset if we got rid of it

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868311#Comment_121868311

and blowing a couple of billions will change that how exactly?

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868311#Comment_121868311

lol ok. heck of a movie you got there. do you think beyond the part where they're in the dail? or is that when the credits roll?

If you mean to say Ireland is militarily very weak then just say that. UK could always invade, there'll never be a time that they wouldn't be successful at that. If we upped defense to 10% they're still going to likely win.

Russia I don't know that they could. And I have less reason for thinking they could sustain anything here. Its still a country of 5 million, 2800kms away with the sea to contend with. What are they going to do? Rename the place and run the show? I mean if we were sat on mountains of oil or gold it might make sense, if we were in some key location like Panama or Egypt.

As it stands theres nothing here for them to profit from, its far away and not a threat, its a logistical nightmare, governing the people would be difficult and pointless, armed resistance would be encountered, and best of all there is a non-zero possibility of being beaten in a war by Ireland ... which I mean ...dear god.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868396#Comment_121868396

What would they do after taking the Dail? They would have suitable quislings to run the show even convince a few senior army to go along with it after assassinating the others, it is a bit extreme but you asked how it might pan out so I obliged,,

Nothing here? well we are between the USA and Europe and much sea lane traffic passes just off our coast. Many mutinationals are based here too. Besides it's not all about winning it's mainly to deter and make it not worth the while. When Russia attacked Finland in 1940 they held them back in spite of their tanks planes and manpower..

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868438#Comment_121868438

its a pss take. isnt it.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121846718#Comment_121846718

Even if we pumped millions into our defence (NOT going to happen) we'd still get rolled over by any serious nation who wished to invade us.

All of of this "defence" nonsense is just gung ho wishful thinking, call of duty bullshit, by people who'll never be wearing a tin hat themselves.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868460#Comment_121868460

? Defending your home is serious. Maybe you don't take it that way..

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868477#Comment_121868477

if you're actually not taking the mick then this is some of the daftest and funniest nonsense ive seen in my time online. completely unconsidered, its like a steven segal film plot minus the tits and explosions. ah the mercenaries just fly in unaccosted and overrun the dail and convince senior army officers. and then they win. cool.

in your profile you have what seems like mature considered posts about car tax and computerization of life, whisky and the childrens hospital, so you seem to be adult and structured in your thinking, but these posts about mercenaries and roadblocks are so child like that i have to believe you're pulling the pish. and for that reason .... im out.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859941#Comment_121859941

We need that as well.

Ardillaun

The EU helped lift us out of poverty, backwardness, theocracy, forced emigration and a humiliating dependence on our old colonial masters. Now some of us are asking why we should do anything to protect the security of the bloc.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121868739#Comment_121868739

So now we are gone from protecting ourselves to protecting the EU. Do you realise because of geography, in the long term, we are at a far higher risk of invasion from an EU country than from Russia.

The Swiss have not invested heavily in their military historically just because of threat from Russia, its the European maniacs they have been surrounded by for centuries.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859977#Comment_121859977

Modern military don't need strategic bases like that anymore with long range navies, aircraft and weapons. Ireland's strategic relevance in that context ended with WW2. Being able to use Ireland as a base of any kinds is a "nice to have" not "need to have"

Any base would be sandwiched on both sides by US on one side and UK and Europe on the other. It would be daft place to be.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860324#Comment_121860324

Doesn't even make sense for UK to invade either.

Ireland is simply irrelevant from a military point of view.

For policing or monitoring (Radar) it's where Ireland could add value. But that's a shambles currently.

Economics101

Any country of Ireland's size and population cennot really defend itself from a big boy, no matter how much it tries to expand its military capabilities. The only solution is a well-structured defensive alliance, which seemingly scares the crap out of so many people.