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Smart switch for immersion

masterboy123

I want to ask if there is a WiFi controlled switch or a timer switch for controlling the water boiler? I have night rate electricity until 8 am and want to start boiler at 7.30 am until 8 am. The sink/bath switch doesn't do anything different.

I am attaching pic below:

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tomhammer..

IE: a means of switching off beside the immersion heater so you can safely work on it

That's gone if you replace immersion switch with an electronic controller

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786775#Comment_121786775

Except with something like this, except it’s only 13A

https://www.electricalworld.com/Mobile/en/ie/Timeguard-Wi-Fi-Contolled-Fused-Spur-Timeswitch---TUYA/m-m-10648.aspx?PartnerID=73&gclid=CjwKCAiA8sauBhB3EiwAruTRJl9g9edl4U0vMupCHyybssO9uLgv_q-rnBLLcUTHY8LTZswsU8MMZhoCyBYQAvD_BwE&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=Ireland

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786791#Comment_121786791

Ya that's fine for isolating a 13amp appliance

An electronic only controller isn't acceptable

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786775#Comment_121786775

I'd be isolating back at the cu especially if the switch was being replaced because of heat damage (as most of them are replaced for this reason). I'd isolate at the cu anyway.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786775#Comment_121786775

To work on it, i was going to turn off the MCB for the whole house. Would that be enough?

Thanks

[Deleted User]

I would definitely use a daisy chain of a physical switch after the smart switch. This allows increased versitility in use as well as extra safety. Most of these switches do not offer neutral isolation which is important.

tomhammer..

Simplest way alright

Controller or timer > existing immersion switch

You're keeping the sink bath changeover and the isolator

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788657#Comment_121788657

Pardon my ignorance, but could a timer be attached to the existing immersion switch? If yes, please share a link.

Many thanks

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788612#Comment_121788612

I did notice that the neutral wasn't switched unlike the immersion switch itself. Would it really matter in reality? I wouldn't think so.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788533#Comment_121788533

The immersion should have its own dedicated breaker on the cu, turning it off will isolate it completely no need to turn off the whole house. Check and double check there are no live wires after you isolate, there shouldn't be.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788859#Comment_121788859

In very rare fault scenarios the neutral can float to live voltages which is the risk. Anything that has the potential to fail and electrify your water is an added risk.

Read this from a British source (same as here), a double pole switch MUST be used;

https://www.surejust.co.uk/images/uploaded/documents/Immersion%20Connection%20Instructions.pdf

If anything goes wrong and you didn't use a double pole then you would not be insured and potentially could be open to prosecution. There is very little wiring wise that you are allowed to alter nowdays and if water is involved it is usually a legal requirement to use a qualified spark.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788877#Comment_121788877

The consensus view is that it's unsafe to install a smart switch and insurance will not cover it. So I am stuck to the existing switch 😐

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789366#Comment_121789366

No that isn't the consensus, you can install the smart switch before the immersion switch which keeps the double pole switch in the circuit. I removed my immersion switch and installed an old type 24hr timer which switches both poles it's ancient at this stage but is still working perfectly and nobody was electrocuted in 30 years.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789366#Comment_121789366

No that's not what people are saying, what people are saying is don't remove your two poll immersion isolator from the new arrangement.

The concern I have is that if you are not able to answer these questions yourself - then are you safe to be doing this yourself. Its very easy to add a smart switch before the immersion switch - but if you can't wrap your head around it maybe your not the person to do it.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789388#Comment_121789388

The question I have:

Is it a straightforward conversion from the existing switch to the new wifi controlled switch? Just like how I replaced the electricity switch last week and it was a very easy task.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789521#Comment_121789521

No - because the correct way is prescribed by regulations.

masterboy123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789539#Comment_121789539

As in to be installed by a qualified electrician?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790377#Comment_121790377

I cannot find a definitive answer as to whether you can do the work yourself.

However what is certain is that if you remove the two pole isolator your installation will not be compliant with regulations and you could be legally liable if the property or occupants are harmed.

Personally I will be doing the install of my Sonoff POW R3. I will place it before the immersion isolator switch so ensuring that the required level of isolation remains and making my install compliant with the regulations which define electrical standards.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121782559#Comment_121782559

Switchbot will definitely do the trick. I have one and it switches on and off the immersion switch. No messing around with existing wiring required.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121790455#Comment_121790455

Quick one. The install means that you will be leaving the old physical switch permanently On I assume?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856064#Comment_121856064

Yes I will.

My Sonoff-po-r3 arrived today. Just flashed esphome to it.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856102#Comment_121856102

Great stuff. I have a TH16 monitoring the temperature and kicking on the gas boiler etc. Looking to get an immersion controller to give me some timing control as I may switch to an electricity plan which gives the cheap power for the 3/4 hours overnight and that would actually mean it would be cheaper to use the immersion to heat than the gas to heat so need a remote option to be able to control it.

Let us know how you're wiring in goes if you have 5 mins!

[Deleted User]

The immersion switch is mainly there for two pole isolation, doing it any other way would be far more expensive.

Flashing went well but since the screw terminals are exposed I am going to have to put it in a box which will take a few days.

[Deleted User]

Before and after. Worked first time and power monitoring in home assistance.

The box at the top is for thermometers on the tank.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121862736#Comment_121862736

I didn't think those American style clip connectors were allowed in Ireland. For a continuous 16A load I wouldn't trust them I'd use proper large size screw connectors, maybe I'm just too fussy but that's a heavy load being carried there.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121863496#Comment_121863496

Rated at 32A and they are absolutely the preferred option for professional electricians. Much more secure since they are spring loaded and cannot work loose under inductive loads.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121863496#Comment_121863496

Wago are better than strip connectors

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121863527#Comment_121863527

I've never ever seen them anywhere I didn't think they could even be bought here. They wouldn't be for me tbh. Is an immersion heater classed as an inductive load? Call me old fashioned but old type screw fittings would be what I'd use. The few electricians I know don't use them, they certainly wouldn't be their preferred option, maybe they're old fashioned like me. I saw an old fashioned circular junction box nearly burn a house down because the immersion was wired through it, scared the bejaysus out of me🥵🥵. It was a bloody close call.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121863614#Comment_121863614

Are they? How? I'm assuming that's what they're called, they even sound American.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121863624#Comment_121863624

Very widely available , I believe a German company. less like to come

loose than strip connectors

https://www.eurosales.ie/products/wago_compact_splicing_connectors_5_conductor_connector_with_operating_levers.html