Old thread seems to be permanently locked. It will be interesting if anything can come of this at last.
Threadbanned Posters:
Yes, there's probably a simple explanation, like just wanting to get away from the hustle and bustle.
She did appear to bring a large amount of luggage for a short stay, for someone who lived simply while in Ireland.
Is there any record of what she brought with her?
What an excellent question! A very intriguing detail. I don't remember ever seeing this discussed, and it may be quite revealing.
She would usually bring gifts for the Hellens, but she hadn’t visited them this time for some reason. In the photos there is a duty free bag in the sitting room, maybe somethings to give Josie when she met up with her later that day?
Leaving the body in it's place seems like the mindframe of someone getting revenge or being fueled by extreme hate. Maybe leaving the body there was like a F U after the serious assault. Like "you'll stay there" as the person left. Doesn't seem like someone who panicked anyway.
Yes, and to add to those interesting points - perhaps someone with no fear of being caught \ no fear of the Guards or thinking themselves above the law.
It's probably not discussed because it has probably been looked into and deemed not relevant.
The problem with this case is that there are only so many verifiable facts out there.
As a result people start looking at it for the first time and they see things that they think the Gardai did not see, just because they are not part of the story.
If there was some sort of connection with drug activity in west Cork we would have heard about it years ago.
If the contents of her luggage or the volume of her luggage was something that was of interest we would have heard about it years ago.
Tyre tracks on the side of the boreen perhaps?
Every laneway in Ireland has multiple tyre tracks on its verges in winter, if there was some investigative value to them we would have heard about it years ago.
Another poster mentioned phone records from Sophie's house, they were likely investigated and verified, if there was anything revealing there we would have heard about it years ago.
I quess the current review will look at all that. There may, as discussed earlie,r be some details being held back to incriminate the killer(s)
No but she was going on to Daniel's chateau near Toulouse and then to Dakar so it may be luggage for the whole trip.
I find it hard to believe she did not bring gifts for the Hellen’s.
Yes I had wondered if she intended the bottle of wine for Hellens or even the Ungerers.
Perhaps there were other bottles? Unfound..
John Helen, the son of Ms Toscan du Plantier’s caretaker, Josie Helen, had found a bottle of wine hidden in a ditch in 1997.
John Helen found the bottle of wine hidden near the entrance leading to Ms Toscan du Plantier’s house, about 900 metres from the murder scene.
Later checks found it was on sale in Charles De Gaulle Airport, in Paris, but was not on sale in off-licences in West Cork.
I assume she usually flew from Charles De Gaulle airport?
If not it could be some sort of clue...murderer shows up with a fancy bottle of French wine to charm her. She says she's not interested, murderer takes it personally and attacks her. Throws the bottle of wine away in a huff afterwards
That is a good alternative scenario and not entirely implausible depending on the availability of the wine here
You'd still have to think it's most likely she or one of her frequent companions bought it
Don't know if she kept a stock of wine and it may have been bought on a previous accompanied trip ?
That's where she flew in from in december 1996 and she was due to fly back to Toulouse on Christmas Eve
It could have been left as a warning to neighbours?
We have to wonder; under what circumstances would anyone either throw away a bottle of French wine, or hide it in a ditch?
I've sometimes found a bottle of beer, or a can or two, shoved into a hedge; usually near where teenagers have been partying outdoors, or similar. But this doesn't seem to be the case here, on a private premises with no other signs of "messing about"
I can only think, a wild guess, that this bottle had been IN the house, on a shelf or whatever.
The person who killed Sophie went briefly TO the house, (leaving a small smear of her blood on the back door) (which might have been left open when she came out) - and they did a quick scovey round, snatched a bottle of wine, (and what else?) pulled the door behind them and then made their escape.
At the last minute they realise that this bottle would be very incriminating so they give it a hasty wipe and push it into the ditch before they leave.
All pure speculation, I admit it.
Unfortunately the system was analogue so they were unable to check phone records.
We know that Sophie was dressed to go outside, maybe she went down to the gate with the wine as a Christmas present. If she hadn’t given the Hellens anything yet, that could have included neighbours etc.
Does anyone know if what the Independent recently reported is accurate, that it was a habit of Sophie’s to wear her boots with her pyjamas in the morning because of the cold floors?
The bottle of wine has to be connected to the murder in some way but maybe not in the way we think, maybe it was planted to point the investigation in a certain direction.
A likely scenario..Not just a bottle of wine. An expensive bottle of wine, unavailable in this country, unopened! Perhaps they also looked for evidence incriminating them a note or record of a name..
It sounds plausible, even though speculative.
The question would also be, how valuable this wine really was. Back then, a duty free shop was really cheap, not like today. And wine is in general also cheaper in France than in Ireland, even back then it was. So after all the bottle of wine was probably not that expensive.
Again also speculation.
She could also have brought the bottle of wine on a previous trip and left it at the house? Also possible.
I have seen it described as expensive... cant remember where I read it but sth like 70 punts mentioned.
Can anyone shed any light on the flight home?
Do we know for sure when she was due to fly home and where she was flying to? I think I've seen Toulouse mentioned before but don't know if it was a direct flight or not. She wouldn't have been flying on Christmas Day anyway.
Well 70 pounds for wine is probably not much for Sophie and for somebody in a job like hers back then? Not sure. It would seem that the relationship with the caretaker and Sophie would have been good? Or has anybody considered that she may have met the caretaker in the morning they had an argument and she was killed?
So much unexplained about this case:
The gate
The wine
The lights
The time of death
The block
Etc.
Statement of Mr Daniel Toscan du Plantier, 55 years, producer, made to Jean Louis Chaumet, Police Commandant
I am saying that in a telephone call that I received on the morning, my wife had told me she had finally intended to return to France on 24th December and that she had been able to get a seat on an Aer Lingus flight arriving in Toulouse-Blagnac, at 8.00pm and i would meet her there
I havent seen that floated as a theory.
It is noted in Michael Sheridans book that on the afternoon of the 21st:
Finbar Hellen and son Jon walked over to Toormore and saw Sophie's car at the cottage. Finbar almost walked up to greet Sophie but did not. However he anticipated she would come out to talk to them and did not, which he registered as unusual to the extent that he told this detail to the police...
Later on their return... Again Sophie does not come out. Finbar saw Sophie's shadow in the house.
From the crimeguy.com timeline which also details the phone calls between Sophie and the Hellens:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/6LO3XX7RV5W3/519310568-sophie-toscan-du-plantier-timeline.pdf
900 meters from the scene is not exactly close.
West Cork gets a lot of European visitors, it could have belonged to anyone.
How it ended up in the ditch I've no idea, but it may be completely unrelated to the case.
I dont know if it is related to the case but I am thinking there's not much else within 900 metres?
There has been mention of holiday homes being broken into in West Cork and drinks cabinets raided.
Thanks, I see the timeline PDF shared after your post says:
"Josephine Hellen rings Sophie to check she has arrived safely and all is in order. It is. Sophie has not yet decided whether to fly home on 23rd or 24th December and has tickets for both days."
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