Late to the thread and not on top of things information wise but for me a massive concern would be initial outlay, depreciation and resale value. Like how much is a 3, 4 or 5 year old EV going to be worth especially wrt battery degradation? Like what will that same degradation do to range which is even at brand new and most optimistic values only just ok.
Am I wrong?
Polestar is massively overpriced for what it is
BYD isn’t within an ass roar of replacing Kia and Hyundai. It like the Tesla, are people will buy because they think it’s funky etc, then it will fall short of the dramatic taking over the World
Diesel will always have a market, I’m sure people posted 5 years ago the same thing. It’s still a hugely successful fuel and excellent for some requirements
Dacia will be bought by Dacia buyers, BYD will be bought by similar, they will eat each others market share.
Try telling someone that is buy a new Merc/BMW/Audi/Vw and even a Tesla they will be buying a Dacia in 5 years and they will rightly laugh at you.
too true.
You see the comments in boards travel section that Cork people find Rosslare like the other end of the world, and on the continent anything more than a couple of hours drive is seen as equivalent to the Le Mans 24 hours, they either avoid long drives like the plague or like the bossman above, have relatively unnecessary comfort stops.
The media articles slanting Evs really need to acknowledge this and show that for a large chunk of drivers that even an Ev with relatively low range would be fine.
We have 1 director in work clinging on for dear life for another x5 company car which he is not getting, and is in a huff about it. Everyone else in management team with company car is now EV.
I took a trip with him today from Dublin to cork, he was driving the x5, he stopped on the way down for something to eat and do some emails and stopped on the way back too.
Where did he stop each time? A Circle K. And what did circle K have? 350kw Chargers (I know you won't get 350 or anything resembling it but we would be fully charged in time we had our sandwich and coffee)
Seeing lots of them around.
That’s true they are becoming the affordable brand for the savvy consumer who is not bothered about brands.
I live at the foot of the Slieve Bloom mountains and the nearest public charger is around 20km away. Coming up to a year of EV ownership and I have only used a public charger 3 times.
Every time it was my wife's fault for not telling me it was low and needed charging, so realistically, I didn't need to use them! Each time, I pulled up to the charger, - no queues, went to the toilet, and grabbed a coffee. By the time I came out, I had usually added around 30 kwh which was more than enough to get me home. I regularly travel to Dublin and if it's charged it to 100%, I have no problems with the range. Gone to Waterford and Cork too with no need to charge.
When considering buying an EV, the range was always deterring me, but when I actually examined my daily mileage, I realised that I rarely go over 250 - 300km a day. The fact that I never technically 'needed' to use a public charger proves this.
IMO, rural is perfect for an EV but I think the pushback stems from people being told they will have to adopt. There is a lot of misinformation and even hatred towards EVs... why anyone could hate an inanimate object is beyond me! On many occasions, my wife's work colleagues have peddled nonsense to her including
I just laugh.
Its totally a mindset thing, though there will always be people for who it just doesn't suit.
But the money that can be saved in the longer term on fuel will chip away on the rest for sure.
I do Dublin to the very south of Wexford regularly and dont need to stop to charge. Sometimes I stop and dont bother charging and sometimes I stop and get some charge for the sake of it. Applegreen in Coynes cross and Ionity at Gorey are both 2 handy locations that are a typical stopping point for trips for toilet breaks or a snack if needed.
People have this mindset that if your car cant do a 600km round trip in one go, then there is no point. Yet a lot of people would still stop on a journey of this length for 15 or 20 mins anyway, which is enough on a fast charge to complete the journey just fine. Its also usually people who havent used an EV or no experience of charging who think that it is a hassle or awkward.
brilliant, thanks for this one 😁
I've been doing Waterford (occasionally Tramore) weekly for the past year from Dublin via Enniscorthy. Ionity Gorey is the failsafe if I'm low on the way back, but I haven't needed to stop there yet. 2 kids and a dog, but their weight would be negligible compared to the car.
I would disagree on one simple count - rural drivers have longer commutes, so they actually end up benefiting more from EV's.
E.g. My parents live rural, both have a 50-75km round trip daily commute for work. Any modern EV has the range to last the whole week so charging each car overnight isn't an issue.
A combined 750km a week (incl. shopping trips etc.) was costing them ~€90 a week in their old petrol cars
An EV? Well assuming a reasonably efficient 17kwh/100km (which my parents are getting), you would need 127.5 KWh a week.
On the overnight EV plan at 8c/kWh (lowering in price soon) that's..... €10.20 a week. There's plans out there that even do as low as 5c/kWh.
My parents keep their cars for 10-15 years. So 80 quid saved times 46 weeks a year times 15 years is..... €55,200 saved in fuel over the life of the vehicles. Not even counting servicing costs or the fact they have solar panels.
Combine that with the fact the likes of an MG4 now costs less than a Paddy-spec feature-less manual transmission VW Golf? Yeah you'd have to be knee-deep in the Anti-EV kool-aid to not consider them even for rural owners. And if you're a rural user who's worried about your twice yearly trip to Dublin Airport? Just buy a Tesla and use the Supercharger network, and it's a non-issue. Model 3 is the same price as a specced up Golf now anyway!
Not having a go, just dispelling the myth that EV's somehow aren't suited to rural users.
Yeah, I understand the home charging point thing is mainly an urban issue, I meant main rural issue is range anxiety.
Replies since suggest its less than people think, as not every country-dweller is doing Dublin-Cork roundtrips every week. But even knowing there's infrequent intercity trips required, along with route planning to think about is going to be off-putting. Not everyone is willing to change the mindset.
I visit Wexford (from Dublin) several times a year, and looking at what chargers are available en route I'm not sure I want to deal with that trip with three kids and a dog. Especially the way the motorway eats charge, and the winter range.
A lot of the people I know do ad hoc journeys. Maybe home to a sick parent, or to Dublin for something. Business or such. When they get to their destination they have to do more driving around.
But for sure it not everyone. But it's still a valid scenario. Many have a 2nd ICE car anyway..
There's a lot of that too for sure.
I think it's simpler than that. People can't be bothered with any faffing about.
Many little just want something that can fix with screwdriver. There's merit to that.
I would argue rural areas are where people have off street parking, own their own homes and so can get home charger, can get solar panels for charging cars for free. Often commutes to school and work are long, with modern EVs range of 300km+ it may make sense for many. Urban on street is an issue. I know someone driving a Mercedes ICE cannot buy a Mercedes EV due to on street parking with no charger (and cost of car). They would be mad to try.
In terms of a step change in EV vs ICE, a lot of brand new car sales are not EV and while sales of diesels are dropping many owners are simply holding off buying anything due to cost and confusion over EV. Many car owners can't decide and just keep what they have an delay. Massive depreciation, massive price increases in recent years, price drops and more price drops, trade in prices, high interest rates just cause people to hang on to what they have. The Mercedes owner I know did his first NCT ever as he never has had a 4 year old car.
As an EV owner I am not telling everyone to go EV, public charging is still an issue at peak times, although with a long range EV it's less of an issue. There is lots of mis information but some of it is somewhat relevant.
In terms of getting a home charger it's better to get one before the EV arrives as it can take a month or two and if you were grant approved before December 2023 you will get 600 euro grant, no need to have an EV, but you need to claim before grant expires. It can take surprisingly long to get a home charger installed.
I live at the foothills of the knockmealdowns, what many would consider the back and beyonds of rural Ireland. We're 10km from the nearest EV charger (the only one within a 25 minute drive) yet an EV would suit me and my neighbours down to the ground. Even a cheap Dacia Spring would do the daily 50-60km round trip commute many of my neighbours do Monday to Friday. An EV could easily be topped nightly at home if range is a concern but the aforementioned Spring would only need to be charged twice a week to cater for the the needs myself and my neighbours would have in this part of rural Ireland.
Misinformation seems to be the biggest battle ahead.
Much of this skepticism can be traced back to Elon Musk and a persistent fear of globalism. Ironically, those who fear these changes are often the most influenced by them. Many struggle to accept that Elon produces exceptional cars that differ significantly from the vehicles they grew up with. As technology advances, EVs are sometimes unfairly dismissed as mere novelties, unnecessary in our lives.
Another point of contention arises from pushback against government policies. While governments do exert influence, most individuals still have the autonomy to make their own decisions regarding EV adoption.
Returning to the Elon Musk angle, there’s a cohort of middle-aged men who resent the decline of traditional car manufacturers. They grapple with the fact that legacy automakers no longer dominate the market, with an unconventional American tech guru now leading the charge. For some, clinging to their diesel vehicles becomes a symbolic act—a defiant response to the rise of EVs and the perceived Americanisation of the automotive industry.
The blanket statement that irks me the most is the assertion that “EVs are not the solution.” But what exactly are they not a solution to? It’s curious that hydrogen fuel cells are often touted as an alternative to EVs, even though EVs have yet to make a significant global impact. Why can’t both technologies coexist, much like diesel and petrol do today?
For years, I’ve hoped for an influential figure to debunk the notion that EVs are inherently flawed. Perhaps a compelling Netflix documentary could provide factual insights, allowing people to form their own opinions rather than relying on the biased views of Jeremy Clarkson, Harry Metcalfe, and Chris Harris. These individuals, die-hard petrolheads from a different era, may not fully appreciate the transformative potential of EVs.
As an old-timer myself, I understand the importance of technological progress and its positive impact on the world. However, there’s one thing that really gets under my skin: when fellow old-timers use their old cars as a political statement rather than simply enjoying them for what they are and using them to avoid putting another new car on the road. After all, old cars and electric vehicles both serve the same fundamental purpose: getting us from point A to point B.
Why the fuss? Well, it seems to stem from a clash of ideologies. Some view EVs as the future—a cleaner, more sustainable way to travel—while others cling to the nostalgia of classic automobiles. But in the end, whether you’re cruising in an old BMW or silently gliding in a Tesla, the destination remains the same. So let’s appreciate the journey, regardless of the wheels beneath us.
And that's the upside-down bit of it all. EVs are ideally suited to so many rural commutes and a higher percentage of people living in rural areas live in houses and can charge at home. Rural/suburban commuters usually have longer commutes than urban dwellers and replacing these with an EV will benefit climate change more and have a larger reduction in fuel costs for their owners.
My sister only uses her car for the 25km drive to work/family. The car has probably never done more than 70km in a single day. My brother in-law has a 40km commute to work but has 10 longer trips a year around Ireland. They could get 1 EV to replace my BIL's car for the longer commute and take my sisters car for the around Ireland drives. But although it makes financial sense for them, they're reluctant to change.
I wouldn't agree with the part about ad hoc trips. Not many people will jump in their car and drive for hours without some planning, no matter what the fuel is. There will always be exceptions but living rurally and having an EV is not an issue for the majority.
They do a lot of ad hoc long trips. Running up to Dublin for something. Or back home at the weekend, usually in a rush, and usually with no destination charger. Often non stop. They do it at peak time when the. High speed chargers on route are in peak demand too.
I think ICE will hang on with at least 50% of the market in Ireland. But it might be a case you'll have to take what's available.
Struggled to find decent used manual petrol in what I wanted. Everything was diesel and auto. Usually high miles too. I just got rid a diesel auto..
I agree 100%, the exception would be people living on the main street of towns etc that have the same easily surmount able obstacles as apartment dwellers if there was an appetite to address it.
Why do you think that about rural Ireland? If anything most people in rural Ireland would have somewhere to charge at home making it easier to get an EV.
Given the rural aspect of much of Ireland, ICE cars won't be dying out any time soon. It's in the cities where EVs will take hold. At least for people with driveways. There's always going to be charging issues for apartment dwellers etc., unless (or until) average battery ranges increase to make charging less an issue.
For every "expert" you meet telling you your battery is going to explode, there's an owner showing you on an app how little he's paying to run his daily. And if there's one thing the Irish like its getting one over on someone!
I don’t get swayed by dodgy online articles and I approach articles from established media sources with a critical eye, on the topic of EVs.
Im in the market for a second hand EV- I’m grant approved for the home charger and have about 3 months realistically to buy if I want to avail of this.
While we need two cars, we don’t need them all of the time - other car is a diesel - My head is probably wrecked at this stage deciding if an EV is the best way forward right now.
Concerns are mainly around expensive repairs or replacement re battery when out of warranty - I’ll probably have to suck that one up. I know some will say statistically you’ll be fine and I appreciate that. However I know I’ll be stuck with this “second car” for a long time as reselling will be challenging in years to come.
However I do feel prices are still just crazy in the secondhand market- the EV buying thread is testament to that- no real “bargains” out there- i don’t even care about bargains just asking for a reasonable price at this stage 😀
I don’t believe EVs are the panacea to all ills- we will definitely see the cost of electricity rise in years to come for a variety of reasons - but we do need that tipping point where the secondhand market bails in and starts buying up the second hand stock -I just don’t think the prices are commensurate with the concerns right now- buyer “faith” is lacking so it’s up to the industry to respond with reassurances such as free battery extended warranties for example- if the statistics are to be believed around only small levels of battery failure, then this should be a no brainer for the manufacturers to underwrite- 10-12 year battery warranty and I guarantee you, you’ll see a massive instant pick up in the second hand market
perhaps you're right that i haven't factored in gobshiteness into my assessment however we don't produce cars therefore we're beholden to the international direction of travel re EV's. when car makers move away from ICE in a significant way and governments tax accordingly then lack of choice and financial incentives to stick with ICE will diminish. no tub thumping td will change that.
While I think its going that direction, I think you way overestimate how set in their ways Irish people are in general. There is at least one TD in the Dail who's main platform when he was first running was burning turf, and there is plenty of rural people who will burn nothing else.
The majority of people I've told I'm getting an EV think its a bad idea, despite having no experience with them and quoting misinformation about range and battery failure. Doesn't matter if they are wrong, this is general public perception.
I'm sure a few people will change their minds in the next few years but I don't thing the ICE market will be as apocalyptic as you think
Hyundai BEVs outsold BYD nearly 2:1 in January so bot there yet.
. I'm sure they'll continue to grow as from experience as a buyer Hyundai and Kia weren't overly keen on selling EVs above a bare minimum quantity. If you wanted a Tuscon though ...
the motoring landscape will be unrecognisable in 3 to 5 years. dacia, byd etc. will shake things up with cheap EV's. i wouldn't like to be trying to offload a diesel in 5 years time.
old school traders in cars not tuned in to what's to come in the second hand market are going to be in trouble, those that are agile and transition will be a success. same goes for mechanics not moving with the times.
