Israel/Palestine Thread

thereiver · 13-02-2024 08:03PM

There's a good article about the crisis in Gaza on the guardian UK website opinion section

It says the Israeli government is made up of right wing party's their policy is simply to bomb the hell out of Gaza there's no peace plan or a plan to have a ceasefire the only hope is that Biden might stop sending arms to Israel as the civilian casualties increase

The idf relys on a constant stream of weapons and bombs from the us government

The present Israeli government is extremely right wing the idf even killed 2 ambulance workers who were sent to rescue a child in the last week there is simply no safe space left in Gaza mode people in Gaza are not members of hamas if the civilians are not killed by bombs they are at risk or starvation there's a shortage of food and basic medical supply's

We are witnessing war crimes and genocide against a defenceless civilian population of course hamas are a ruthless violent terrorist group but the present bombing of civilian buildings houses and mosques is not justified the Israeli government had warnings that a hamas attack was coming before Oct 7th but they did not think that hamas had the resources to mount an attack and break thru the border defences with missiles drones and other vehicles

The hamas attack was well planned and designed to attack in a short space of time and overwhelm the border defences

In the 70s in Ireland we had the Ira planting carbombs we should understand most civilians don't support extreme violent terrorist attacks hamas only has the support of a small percentage of civilians in Gaza

SeanW · 13-02-2024 08:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763815#Comment_121763815

I'm questioning dmacdona's figures for children killed in Ukraine: considering that Russia has been murdering Ukrainians wholesale for two years (having started that war totally unprovoked), any number not at least 4 digits looks questionable.

Frank Grimes · 13-02-2024 08:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763842#Comment_121763842

A simple Google would get you the answer you're looking for https://www.google.ie/search?q=number+of+children+killed+during+ukraine+conflict

Overheal · 13-02-2024 08:24PM

Because the Ukrainian casualty numbers have to be a lie right - because otherwise that would be another nail in the coffin in favor of the Israel genocide claim wouldn't it.

What other war that isn't already commonly regarded as a genocide (WW2, Cambodia, Bosnia, Rwanda, etc.) resulted in 12,000+ child deaths in 3, 4 months?

dmcdona · 13-02-2024 08:48PM

I'm not taking anything away from the reports below but I'd imagine the outrage from some Israelis (and their supporters) would put their outrage about the deaths of 12,000 Palestinian kids in the ha'penny place.

Haaretz:

The niece of Fernando Marman, rescued from captivity by the IDF this week, said that he did not receive the medicine delivered to Gaza specifically for him as part of a deal with Hamas.

Agam Goldstein-Almog, who was released from Hamas captivity during the hostage deal in November, said that one of the hostages was sexually assaulted at gunpoint.

dmcdona · 13-02-2024 08:54PM

For any other potential queries on comparisons of the deaths of children in war:

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-02-2024 08:55PM

Well he seems.....Nice

"In Gaza we deal only with terrorists. If someone gets a b*llet - he probably deserves it"

https://twitter.com/ytirawi/status/1757178412437786751?t=NW0_pMuwyfsph_yhtAkTPw&s=19

pjohnson · 13-02-2024 08:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764007#Comment_121764007

I coulda sworn it was established here Hamas would never sexually assault anyone, and that Hamas can be trusted to distribute aid properly if the Israeli's let aid in?

Anywho Israeli Scumbaggery to blame I'm sure.

Overheal · 13-02-2024 08:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764043#Comment_121764043

birds of a feather:

https://newrepublic.com/post/178679/gop-congressman-brian-mast-dead-palestinian-babies-not-innocent

Overheal · 13-02-2024 09:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764047#Comment_121764047

It was also sworn that Bibi's Amalek speech was just locker room talk

Then users here conceded that slaughtering sheep was 'a bit much'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4tC3D4Ad2A

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

dmcdona · 13-02-2024 09:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764047#Comment_121764047

I don't think anyone "established" either of those points here.

Many (not all) have unequivocally condemned all actions of Hamas against Israelis and Palestinians alike. I have posted Haaretz reports of Hamas stealing food.

But that does not excuse the actions of Israel against civilians - particularly the IDF and Settlers.

Overheal · 13-02-2024 09:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763388#Comment_121763388

Evidence? (2)

dmcdona · 13-02-2024 09:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764053#Comment_121764053

Dear God. How on earth could someone say what he just said and claim to be human? .....

dmcdona · 13-02-2024 09:42PM

Haaretz:

South Africa's government said that it had asked the International Court of Justice at The Hague to consider whether Israel's decision to extend its military operations in Rafah required the court to use its power to prevent further breach of Palestinians' rights.

https://twitter.com/SDFronttwit/status/1757438616400490571

Overheal · 13-02-2024 09:47PM

Feel the Bern

Sudden Valley · 13-02-2024 09:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764225#Comment_121764225

What has Biden said about the Rafah operation? Or is he still doing next to nothing.

Im sure this SA action will result in a lot of Anti SA posts here. They dont like like the country they support being called out like this.

Overheal · 13-02-2024 09:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764270#Comment_121764270

What did the post you were responding to have to do with the United States? Deflection.

Sudden Valley · 13-02-2024 09:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764283#Comment_121764283

Biden has a role in what is happening in Rafah. it is not deflection to ask what his view is regarding this operation. The united States is the only country Israel listens to and Biden is its leader.

Overheal · 13-02-2024 09:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764296#Comment_121764296

What does any of that have to do with the quoted post?

What have you bothered to research about his view regarding operations in Rafah?

Sudden Valley · 13-02-2024 10:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764307#Comment_121764307

I apologise for quoting the post then.

what is your deal regarding Biden. Do you think he is doing enough to protect the citizens of Gaza?

13-02-2024 10:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764053#Comment_121764053

They really are a bunch of weirdos.

volchitsa · 13-02-2024 10:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763821#Comment_121763821

We didn't see people in Derry or Belfast spitting on the corpses of murdered women though, did we? And shouting "Thanks be to God" as they did so, too.

So I wouldn't be so sure that you can apply the same logic as Northern Ireland to "Islamic Resistance", ie Hamas. For one thing, they've been running the education system for 20 years, and have been brainwashing children to want to kill Jews. There was nothing comparable in Northern Ireland. Though I'm sure the IRA would have loved to get a good crack at the education system if they could have. Easiest way to brainwash a population.

volchitsa · 13-02-2024 10:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121762876#Comment_121762876

Not 70 men. Men of 70 - and that's what the discussion was about: a claim that the Israelis were lying about the hostage rescue because a tweet said that one of the men had been released back in November. Which one second's thought should have told anyone who had a clue about this couldn't possibly be true - and wasn't. If you jumped in without understanding all that, that's really not my problem.

And if you think engaging your brain before posting nonsense is mental gymnastics, well...

dmcdona · 13-02-2024 10:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764270#Comment_121764270

Anyone who criticises SA for going to the ICJ in the first place and then going back to express further concerns needs to be aware that firstly, as a signatory to the genocide convention, they have a legal duty to prevent genocide.

Secondly, criticism of a further visit by SA to the ICJ is tacit acceptance of the worsening and possibly catastrophic conditions in Gaza being simply "meh".

I do not have the ability to go to the ICJ - I couldn't give a hoot who went to the ICJ. Someone had to go. It just happened to be SA - that's all.

When this is all over, at least SA can hold their heads up and genuinely say "we tried".

dmcdona · 13-02-2024 10:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764309#Comment_121764309

What is Israel doing to protect the citizens of Gaza?

For a nation that makes sure everyone knows it's a supposed "beacon of light" and "the only democracy" in the Middle East, it is on a free fall trajectory down that particular league table.

As for Biden, does anyone honestly believe it is solely within his purview to simply snap his fingers and Netanyahu will do as he's told? Politics doesn't work like that. Biden and the US plus many many other countries have told Israel not to attack Rafah.

If Israel does, and the Gazans are slaughtered in their 10's of thousands, I think there is a distinct possibility that one or more countries nearby will unleash hell on Israel. Please god it doesn't get to that - this is all on Netanyahu and his warmongers. Not on Biden.

Sudden Valley · 13-02-2024 10:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764448#Comment_121764448

I think he should do more. I think Obama would have done more. If he put his foot down and demanded they not go ahead with the operation in rafah I don't think Israel would begin it. Instead he has said that citizens should be protected at all costs which is similar to the icj ruling that Israel has so far ignored.

Of course I agree that Israel will be ultimately responsible.

13-02-2024 10:33PM

https://youtu.be/dMoOo21FRxs?si=WpvLz2IUsA299HJS

They're all Hamas. Hamas everywhere. Whats happening now makes this look like a cakewalk in comparison. These areas don't even exist any more.

dmcdona · 13-02-2024 10:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764467#Comment_121764467

Do you really think if Biden said something like

"Well Netanyahu, you'd better not go into Rafah or there'll be wigs on the green - AND I REALLY MEAN IT"

would actually make a difference?

If not, what do you propose Biden should do? Threaten attack? Threaten to not send any more weapons? Threaten to send Tucker Carlson to do interviews?

Sudden Valley · 13-02-2024 10:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764509#Comment_121764509

George Bush snr is generally considered the last president to actually stand up to isrrael. He put specific conditions on the aid package to Israel to regulate their behaviour. And Israel did play ball. Is the USAnot providing aid to Israel now? Can Biden not put conditions in the aid package specific to their operations in gaza ?

dmcdona · 13-02-2024 10:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764086#Comment_121764086

@Danzy

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Israel/Palestine Thread

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