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E10 finally coming in...

_ptashek_

Right, the day has come and we'll be getting E10 petrol at the pump in April. Two of my three classics can't handle it too well, one is from the 70s another form late 80s. Old materials that don't like ethanol etc.

I'll still drive them, but wonder how long they'll standup to the abuse. All the snake oil additives are largely useless anyway.

What's your plan?

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MrCostington

Thanks @w124man I'll have to source some better lines and replace them later.

w124man

Did a dig about on the spec of the Halfords hose

MrCostington

Thanks. I'll have to get some R9 and replace all the lines at some stage, but hopefully this will do for now. And, I always put the additive in.

_ptashek_

Just a note: aside from a higher working pressure, R9 hoses are also rated for permanent use with bio-fuels (bio-diesel, E5 and above). R6/R7 will deteriorate faster when used with E10.

MrCostington

I ended up getting some R6 from Halfords. I went to and rang a few places and nobody could tell me what spec they sold. so I went to Halfords as they have the spec. That was all they had in 8mm. It's rated at 20 bar working pressure. I only had today to get it done so had no choice, I'll keep an eye on it.

WRT the clamps, the hard lines have no barb or anything like that, so I just put 2 x jubilee clip at each end and ran it for 10 min, all ok

JP 1800

Here is an example, https://www.halfords.ie/tools/fuses-electricals-fittings/fixings/halfords-fuel-injector-hose-7mm-hfh503-318469.html

JP 1800

Halfords actually sell R9 rated fuel lines, they call it fuel injection hose, just need to keep an eye out. I know the Kjetronic well, it was on a few 80s and early 90s cars. It is sensitive to pressure though but a reliable system. Easier to get parts for than the earlier D jetronic system.

Regarding the clamps, as said earlier they are suitable if there is a barb or slight bubble on the solid fuel line the flexible fuel line attaches to. I would not be overly confident if they are purely relying on a friction fit to straight line. Most oem flexi lines would have a crimped fitting that is mechanically attached to a solid line.

MrCostington

Thanks. According to the halfords site, the R7 "Working pressure: 225psi/15bar" and my K-Jetronic works at 5bar (I found several figures online but that's the max) so that should be ok? Any idea where I might get R9?

The clamps are OEM I believe, they match the others on the other lines. But, I remember they were very fiddly so going to put two jubilee clips at each end.

JP 1800

I suspect that hose is not rated for the high pressure side of the fuel injection system hence the splitting and bulging. Those clamps are certainly not recommended unless there are barbs on the solid line they attach to. Also J30R7 is standard fuel and oil line for low pressure, you need J30R9 for fuel injection systems on the high pressure side. Replace with hardline or correct fitting rubber lines. The rubber lines will require at least a flare on the hard lines.

MrCostington

I was under my car on Saturday doing an oil change and took the opportunity to check the fuel lines, lucky I did!

I had run the car for 30 min before jacking it up. I did notice some drips as I was putting the jack under the diff but assumed it was condensation.

I'm not sure if this is E10 related though, as about 2 years ago there was a leak at this same point. It was due to a too small overlap of the rubber and hard lines. So, I'm pretty sure this hose section is ~2 yrs old. E10 was not on my radar then so can only assume it's compatible.

Just a bad hose? Are Halfords hoses good quality? They are SAE J30R7.

MrCostington

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121817372#Comment_121817372

Good to hear it's not just me! Yes I just very lightly screw the cap on now, before it "clicks". And yes, it could be better for putting in the tank. Should be like the Dipetane bottle and have a long neck.

PauloMN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757183#Comment_121757183

Got two bottles of it a while back, used first bottle a couple of times, couldn't open it last time I got petrol, exactly same issue you had. Then remembering I had the 2nd bottle, tried to open it, same bloody thing! Eventually my son got the first bottle open, so just put the cap back on a little less tight. Crap bottles and also difficult to get the damn stuff down into the tank!

_ptashek_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759505#Comment_121759505

No ill effects on either of my W124, but a hit on the wallet due to 10% increase in consumption on both... 😫

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012850#Comment_121012850

We have have a 2007 golf petrol which we don't drive a lot and had a lot of problems with a tank full that looked like this. Had to get it pumped out. I know the Golf is rated for E10 but it's never run right with it.

MrCostington

I've done about 1,500 miles with E10 without any issues, using Wynn's plus just filling up with 25L at a time so it's not sitting too long.

I'm due an oil change in the next few months so I'll inspect the fuel lines while under the car.

So, you have been sitting with a tank of E10 since the summer? I believe one of the issues it that is could absorb moisture and rot the tank from the inside.

w124man

Anyone having real issues with E10 yet? I started up my ride on today which has had E 10 since last summer. No issues! All my petrol cars are behaving themselves and I can see no difference

MrCostington

Thanks, yeah, I think I was holding it with the main part of the bottle, I'll try as you suggest. For now I just very lightly screwed the cap on. Crazy we have to do this, when I was a kid my mother just said don't drink the bleach etc, and I didn't . Progress, eh :)

Buffman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757183#Comment_121757183

With those narrow neck measurement bottles I just hold them by the top measurement part while opening the cap. It can be a bit tricky squeezing the last drop out of it but never had any issues with collapse.

MrCostington

A question for any Wynn's users. With the last two bottles I got I ran into a problem. The cap is one of those kid safe ones where you have to push and turn, in both bottles once I got down to the last 3rd of it, the top of the bottle collapsed under the pressure of pushing down on the cap and it took ages to open the bottle again.

Anybody else experience this?

Joe 90

The forcing of E10 only is simply a not very stealthy tax increase. People will burn more hence pay more tax.

Buffman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121023957#Comment_121023957

Ye, I think I'll be leaving little enough in it over winter, might just drain the system and throw it in my daily. At the moment I have a bottle of Wynn's E10 protector I'm using, but I'll be shopping around online over winter for some as prices seem to vary wildly for them.

MrCostington

@Buffman Nice to hear the additive actually did something, I'm using one too, but there is always a doubt in my mind am I paying for snake oil! Which one do you use?

I used to always fill with 45.5 L (10 gal) so I could easily keep an eye on my MPG, but since E10, I've reduced the fill to 25L so as not to have petrol in the tank too long, plus my additive bottle has a measure for every 5L up to 25L.

Buffman

I had an issues earlier this month from what I now presume was my first fill of E10 back in July. Classic hot start issues, would just randomly die when hot and refuse to start until it cooled down a bit, car down on power also.

Drained the tank and the fuel was very cloudy and not the crystal clear you'd normally expect. The tank had only been cleaned last winter so I'm confident there weren't any issues with it.

Not willing to bin 40l of petrol, I refilled with the appropriate amount of E10 additive and the car has run perfectly since.

noelf

Read this recently on the Libby library app ..

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120706965#Comment_120706965

Well, in the case of the sidevalve Ford the results should be apparent almost immediately.

w124man

Problem is with these additives, none of us will actually know if they work until its too late! maybe all classic car clubs should organise runs to Newry so we can fill up with E5 98!!

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704374#Comment_120704374

Did you try using one of the additives suggested?

antodeco

Only issue Ive found with the lucas (the one I use) is that there is no "measurement" section, so I end up pouring about 1/4 of the bottle in on each fill

Conway635

I have a 1957 Ford 100E sidevalve, which I drive some weekends (generally clock up approx 1,000 miles a year).

The first summer I had it (summer of 2018) I suffered a few problems of vapourisation - not wanting to restart while hot because the fuel had boiled. I resolved these with two fixes - a head-shield between the exhaust manifold and the carb, and a reconditioned fuel pump (as the old one was worn and weak). (it's a mechanical fuel pump at the front of the engine, the fuel flowing to it by gravity).

The car has been great ever since, even in hot weather.

Yesterday I had to put in E10 for the first time, and had a major vapourisation issue pretty much straight away. Unlike 2018 when it would re-start after 30 mins, I had to wait an hour before it would fire up. I nursed it home, and when I parked it in the garage I could see the fuel in the clear fuel filter literally boiling like a kettle.

So, I'm going to have to re-think my options. For now I'll have to avoid summer driving, but I'll look into additional heat shielding, lagging the front portion of the exhaust pipe, or possibly an electronic fuel pump.

Steve

MrCostington

I've been using this one (simply because that's all they had in my local factors):

https://www.halfords.ie/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/fuel-oil-additives/wynn%27s-specialist-e10-protector-multi-shot-581494.html

The guys in the MB club forum reckon that either this, Millers or Lucas should be fine. I'm on my 2nd or 3rd fill now (unsure as the first one said E10 on the pump nozzle and E5 on the pump itself under the display!). Before I used to get 10 gallons (45.5L) at a time for easy checking of MPG, now I get 25L so it's not sitting as long.

No problems to report at this stage. Fuel consumption is hard to say, actually been a lot better than normal, but then I've also been to several shows and runs of some distance. I might try running without additive as suggested above to satisfy my curiosity.