Is there any political party that will reverse this nonsense? They will get my vote
which one are you talking about
Yes except that you don't need to clean your bottles anymore and the speculation about cans or bottles that are not accepted is just speculation
If you do your shopping in a car anyway then there's no difference really for you on that front
Like every other alternative idea that's been floated on the various threads.
It's interesting to speculate but not going to happen.
Or a brand new (and not off the shelf) split chamber one. Either way - more cost and complexity from a proposal that is apparently trying to stop cost and complexity.
And why do you think that is?
There's no full figure on the cost of the RVM scheme. Any costs published are not complete nor are there any costings for any other schemes or enhancements.
Ironically enough at least one of the top five or six countries in the world for recycling has pretty much avoided this type of nonsense to this point. They've kept state and LA involvement in the collection and recycle process while we continue to let our state and LAs washed their hands of it.
The only place I have really taken note of the use of recycling bins is in airports.
That's because I tend to be hanging around at a loose end in such locations.
I agree that people and especially kids have no idea how to use them. It's common to see messy stuff like fruit waste put in where paper is supposed to go.
In addition regarding the separate collection of cans in refuse trucks, would they not need another wheelie bin for every house as well ?
Because people just see a public bin as a bin, they don't pay any attention to what its meant to be.
There was no public consultation on your random idea because it is just that - a random bad idea. But there are figures on what the RVM rollout is costing retailers; and there are figures on what recycling trucks cost. You can do the maths.
Most importantly - remember that your suggestion does not increase collection figures by anything at all - all it does is provide some minor level of pre-sort, at the cost of needing more recycling trucks and more staff to do it. It is an exceptionally expensive suggestion for bugger all gain.
And why don't they work, in your own opinion?
Where is the documentation to back up your final assertion? Did it make up some part of public consultation?
Take a look at any public recycling bin that already exists, and compare the contents to the nearest non-recycling bin.
They'll be the same. They don't work.
The RVM rollout will have cost less than replacing every single recycling truck to allow a slower collection that doesn't change collection rates by anything at all.
So this is the issue I have with the existing figures, that someone brought up a few posts back. No one really knows how many plastic bottles get collected as a percentage of what gets sold. Anyway, I suppose that is neither here nor there.
We have very very very few public recycle bins and still don't. I don't know how anyone can suggest that more of them wouldn't improve things when logic suggests that it would, particularly if they were put in good locations and well thought out.
As for the bin trucks, I don't believe it's as big an issue as millions upon millions spend on rvm machines and the infrastructure and human capital that goes with them.
And again, I have major concerns about the validity of any figures used before this scheme came in.
There's about thirty different sets of collection figures. 95% is an insane outlier, it can basically be ignored as invalid - but I've never even seen someone claim that anyway.
Every recycling truck would need to be, and every individual bin collection would take many times as long as the second chamber is manually emptied in to part of the truck before the remainder gets lifted.
There are countries with huge amounts of easily accessible, free, public recycling bins that have brought in DRS schemes; as public bins don't get enough back - and what comes back is very contaminated. Denmark and the Netherlands as similar-ish countries to here.
Collection is allegedly at 95 percent already.....
Not every bin trucks needs to be modified...
Where has this been tried elsewhere and failed?
I don't smell the glass bottle pile that's waiting to be brought to the bottle bank, but to each their own. You won't smell the inside of closed bottles anyway
Most shops of any size have more than one RVM. I've only seen singles in convenience stores. (as an aside my local bottle bank has access to both sides of the bins, and more than two of each type so you'd need 4+ to cause a queue - but is an outlier)
I've used them, in Ireland and other countries - they are fast and they don't provide the reasons for delay that ATMs do. And again, there's usually two.
I honestly don't see the voucher being a problem of any description so didn't see a point trying to comment on that. I'm never going to be looking for the cash, but if I did I'd be OK with going through a till for it.
There are zero occasions on which I will be going to return cans and not be doing shopping in that very store at the same time, although for some reason people on the many threads here seem to suggest they'll be doing it all the time.
You did miss a number of other points that I made (having to use voucher in a specific shop, exchanging for cash etc) but let's keep with the above for now.
A few additional collection trucks isn't the same as refitting all the existing ones.
Slowing down bin collections would massively increase the cost by increasing vehicle and staff requirements - staff are hard to find for anything in Ireland, let alone a particularly unpleasant job (hours, smells, etc).
All that for something that wouldn't do a single thing towards improving collection.
Most importantly - we don't have time to try stuff that failed everywhere else just in case it works here. Trying stuff that failed repeatedly is the definition of insanity anyway.
But sure with this new scheme isn't there a while fleet of new recovery vehicles required with additional routes, staffing and maintenance requirements? Never mind the machines themselves and the additional carbon emissions needed to return this stuff to the machines? No talk of that?
Slowing down bin collection? Seriously versus the additional resources thrown at this DRS it's a drop in the ocean.
How would the second one be wildly ineffective? There are very very few public recycling bins and less still with compartmentalised collection.
Nothing else has been tried in Ireland or am I missing something.
Because the first thing wouldn't do anything at all towards increasing recovery rate (but would require every single recycling truck in the country to be replaced and slow down collection to a huge extent); and the second one would be wildly ineffective.
If you look at what people put in to the marked recycling bins in shops/train stations/airports etc - its just the same as they put in to the normal bin section. Its completely tainted and needs to be processed as normal waste.
DRS schemes are the only thing that has ever delivered the required level of returns and basically everything else has been tried.
So why not put separate compartments in existing private recycle bins for plastic bottles and aluminium cans and why not make more publicly accessible recycle bins with similar compartments available?
Surely in reality they are far more practical and environmentally friendly solutions to the same problem?
Hopefully we get a 4l Coke Zero as a result of this!
In reality rather than imagined problem world:
Yeah, I am and I still would to be honest, havent really had time to delve into them.
If 9 outta ten items are collected and only 6 outta ten are being recycled what is happening the other 3 outta ten? Incineration/landfill? If so why?
Is it down to contamination?
I smell a rat here and it's not the first time private enterprise has the ear of governments out to make a shed load of money.
I was put any plastic containers or cans I use and place them in the recycling bin thats a few metres from my house.
Now, I'll have to wash out my plastic containers & cans, place them gently into a bag and store them somewhere within my house. When I choose to go to a shop, assuming I don't forget them, I'll need to stand and queue at an RVM, placing them individually into the machine and wait for my non-recycleable voucher that I then need to use in that specific shop or I can choose to queue up at the customer service desk to get cash that I personally, don't want to have on me anyway.
If any cans or bottles are not accepted, then I'm 25c down per container and now I need to carry them around the shop with me. Of course they are in the shopping bag that I brought with me to use for shopping so that's a bit of an annoyance.
Anyway, I'll drive home and unload my shopping. I'll then take out my non-accepted slightly crushed plastic bottles/cans, walk the few metres to my green bin, open it and place them inside. The circle of life.
I suppose I'll be happy I have a car because not having one would make the above that little more inconvenient.
Remind me again, based on our recycling statistics - am I in the minority that will have to go through the above?
Another hundred-ish sites on the map and its still incomplete - found out that my local shop, which I've been in at least five times since the 1st, has one buried in the back. Unlisted. They've added ~350 sites since the start date, probably all of which were active on that day and just unlisted.
Five are listed locally, I've seen two of those and they have two RVMs - one set middling size and the other absolutely immense; this shop has an absolutely tiny single.
Yes that is true, but returning cans to an RVM is not a job, and not something someone decides to do "for the state" either. There's no boss or no contract of employment either. it's cash in hand and revenue created via voluntary actions.
Also this scheme itself inconveniences the majority. This is the public being forced to pay the cost for the countries politics/political beliefs yet once again, this time its green related, and because EU put the wind up ireland and the irish members of state, for the country mucking around and not recycling properly or meeting any decent rates. And Thus a goal was set for ireland, and government had the wind put up it behind, and had to act, and thus the creation of these new laws and this return scheme was born
It inconveniences everyone.
because at the minimum it keeps it out of landfill and all the toxic leachate that it produces since the landfill goes anaerobic.
FYI, once you close a landfill, the LA has to look after it for 25 30 years due to this
Just to be clear, doing a job for the state (or any entity) and getting paid for it would make you an employee
If I were to pay the same price for my can of Guinness as before the DRS I'd probably not bother returning the can, I'm sure many others would do the same, therefore defeating the purpose
The only people this scheme punishes are the minority who don't pass an RVM on their way to do the shopping and policy should never be made to convenience the minority over the greater good
The coke zero barcode pre-scheme is different to that going into trade now. Same with Coca-Cola original.
