He died earlier from a heart attack, very curious guy whatever you think of him. If he didn’t kill Sophie Toscan du Plantier he certainly didn’t help himself by his attention seeking behaviour.
It was more than just incompetence.
There were unsafe practices with witnesses, we have Guards on tape discussing altering Jules statement, we have Guards on tape admitting their case was flimsy - yet they later were lobbying the DPP to press charges. Then the deliberately removal of the entries re: Jules statement, how Bailey was identified as a suspect from the evidence book. That is malfeasance.
Then there's the lost evidence, was that incompetence or something worse.
lol
Is that the standard now
Irony abounds... there's the Garda case against Bailey summed up in one line :)
What was so urgent Shirley had to bring it to the dump that moment, that couldn't wait until the scene was processed?
It's not "routine business" if it involves you going through a crime scene.
yet they later were lobbying the DPP to press charges.
Just to colour in how serious that was.
The state solicitor attended college with the sitting minister of justice.
Several senior Guards including the Muldoon super that appears in the docs knew this and applied pressure on him to use his friendship with the minister to bypass the DPP decision. Effectively they wanted the Minister to force the Director of Public Prosecutions to charge Bailey.
But GSOC thought that was grand. 😂
Whatever way it happened (and you’re probably not a million miles away) it’s the brutality of it that astounds me.
I’ve posted the DM article that I referenced yesterday as on reading it again, it’s extraordinary how the person in question carried on after the attack- as if nothing at all happened. The human body and mind is an incredible thing that it enabled this person to appear “normal” post murder. Interesting though how he prepared for this murder by bringing the hammer with him. That’s pre mediated intent right there. Long before he arrived at this woman’s house, he decided he was going to kill her.
Also no history of violence (at least not in this article) - “a wolf in sheep’s clothing”) is how he’s described- but that’s simply referencing the murder he committed- not any ongoing violence.
So what of the Sophie murder?
Well this case shows that it’s entirely possible someone went to her home that night with the intention of killing her- but not necessarily a “hitman”. It could well have been a person presenting as “normal” both before and after the murder.
If I were to focus on just one theory, because we know how much some people love theories here 😀Fir me now, there’s a strong indication at least, that Sophie knew her murderer, that they had some form of disagreement prior to that night, and that her killer went to her house that evening/night at least with anger in their heart- I don’t think it was something that happened on the night - it was festering before that.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13034603/killer-cowboy-builder-wife-reveals-job.html
She was already on her way.
The car was already loaded so it was just as easy to continue.
Sometimes the explanation for these things are very mundane.
Yep
Trip to dump is usually preplanned and not easily postponed
Posters here just can't think straight
It still seems strange, especially when so much fuss was made about Bailey's bonfire.
And was it checked by the Guards before waving her along? I haven't seen anything solid confirming that.
That wording might lead people to believe that the Gardaí allowed Shirley to drive past the body with a boot full of stuff.
What actually happened, which I'm sure you know, doesn't sound dramatic enough.
Also;
How do you know they were not questioned or the car searched?
Det. Pat Joy arrived about noon and moved the police cordon back and covered the body. He took the early crime scene photos. With his forensic training it's unlikely any potential evidence was allowed to go to the dump
Edit to add;
I believe the Garda handling of the scene early was diabolical, and their handling of the subsequent investigation was even worse. But leave the making stuff up to the likes of Nick Foster and Baloney Maloney.
I don't believe there's any suggestion alfie lied about the trip to the dump
Unlike Bailey who told lots of lies and confessed to the murder
For a while there I thought you had abandoned your ABC mantra, but I see you got C in .
Are you honestly on a wind up?
Pre-planned, unplanned, spur of the moment - its irrelevant. Once one of the most brutal murders in the history of the state takes place next door, all bets are off.
I think you must be on a wind up. "Ah she was off to the dump anyway, bit of cleaning before Christmas. She had it all planned out so we weren't going to stop her and we let her drive through the police cordon."
This is just ridiculous. We're never getting anywhere on this thread. She found the body after 10 and went to the dump at lunch time, i think its safe to say the Gardai didn't do a thorough search of her vehicle which makes it all the more crazy.
Another point on this. I think it says a lot of about their relationship with Sophie. A rational person who finds their neighbour's murdered body would be in shock and deeply upset. Shirley and Alfie were back into "routine" (as said above). "Yep, she's been brutally murdered and I found the body a couple of hours ago but look I was on my way to the dump and sure I said I'd get it done today." That to me is absolutely wild.
It's not that unusual. Life goes on.
Older people are pragmatic and just get on with things.
The car was loaded up, might as well finish the job.
Late late show thread will be “fun” tonight
I would say its very unusual for a person who was present at a murder scene, indeed a person who actually found the body, to be allowed to drive a car load of "rubbish" to the dump an hour or so later.
So unusual, in fact, I cannot think of ever hearing of such thing.
I'm empathetic to the horrific trauma he's suffered, but for some reason he irritates me.
I think the issue with this is the Gardai may just have enabled them to "finish the job".
Now to be clear, I don't suspect Alfie and Shirley but it is a perfect example of why this stupid, botched investigation will never come to a conclusion. I actually put this scenario to a relative in the UK who works in the police force and all I got back was "are you serious?" and 10 laughing face emojis.
Just to put a bit of perspective on the dump trip;
This is Shirley's car as the Gardaí found it when they arrived,
it stayed here blocking the gate for 4 hours until the Gardaí asked her to move it.
and after she returned from the dump,it was here for several days;
I would have thought standard procedure would be to check neighbouring bins to see if the murderer (not even the residents) dumped something.
So you think their plan was to hide incriminating evidence in the car, then phone the police and then drive to the dump 4 hours later with the place swarming with Gardai.
There's no logic to that.
Ah here, she hadn’t passed away peacefully in her sleep. She’d found her battered and bloodied, her head caved in with a cavity block. Pragmatic hahaha. Any normal person would be having nightmares for weeks knowing that someone had done that metres from your home.
My mother was like that.
She'd just get on with things.
Older people aren't easily shocked.
Oh Dear, her head was caved in.
Anyway, will have a cuppa and do the puzzle search. Life goes on.
Did your mother find many murder victims??
It would be interesting if he could explain if Bailey has been the only focus of his conversations with Gardai or is he open to other people being clear suspects- I understand his perspective in that he’s placing his trust in the official government agency looking after this investigation - but the family have never really mentioned any possibility other than Bailey - is it blind faith?
I wonder if he would be accepting of the possibility that the killer may well be someone else?
I Don't think Patrick Kielty will “challenge” him - and maybe why should he- he’s a victim here he can believe what he wants I guess - there are certainly other people though that deserve a good grilling in terms of their management of this case
I think PK will bring up his own father and it’ll be a very soft interview. I’d imagine the French would have wanted to prescreen all questions too
Thats the thing that posters are not getting
A trip to the dump is usually preplanned
Ya can have a load of stuff in your way if ya don't make the trip
They would only be drawing attention to themselves if they were involved in the murder
That's the french for you
People don't think.
She would've had to unload the car again.
She couldn't drive the car back to her house again as it was cordoned off, so she would've had to carry everything over 100m. She was in her 60s.
The easiest thing was to go to the dump.
