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Child Item

Irish voters 'hostile' to poppy symbol

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1749297769997906259

Whatever about other symbols the poppy argument I have always found odd.

In Britain some seem to expect the rest of the world to wear the symbol of their war dead as of right.

I have no issue with the poppy at all or the commemoration by Britain of their own fallen soldiers. I don't get offended if I see Irish celebrities or sports people wearing it. I understand it's a strong symbol and dear to them.

I just can't see why we would be expected to wear that symbol. The question is a bit surreal given what had to happen in this country at the start of the last century and times before that. It's like asking people to commemorate those who fought against the establishment of an independent state.

It just doesn't make sense. The IT describes it as 'hostility'. I don't think it's 'hostility', rather it is nonsensical.

What do you think?

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scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668492#Comment_121668492

I take it you won't be celebrating Burns Night tonight then?

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121671247#Comment_121671247

I celebrate nothing.

There is no point, a day happens, then 24 hours later another one comes along.

Many, many years ago I used to attend these quaint little do's for the drinking. I found it was not only easier to drink without attending these various functions, but I could drink a hell of a lot more and of a flavour and dizziness factor I could control selecting my own venues.

The last "do" I went to was in Camp, Kerry, just down the road. I came from England to be awarded a football medal. I hate the stupid game and even then was over sixteen stone, but it's a different story.

That was the last celebration here and probably England too.

I probably would attend anything concerned with my countries freedom. Although I'm against war, there is a point where people have to stand up against an aggressor or be wiped out.

Having said that if the IRA had a poppy day of their own, I still wouldn't buy one.

BaywatchHQ

My grandfather had 4 uncles who died in WW1 and noone ever wore a poppy or attended any commemorations either. Their names are on a monument in a Protestant town and it is only unionists who attend those commemorations. The men were Catholics so I assume they were only in the army because of financial reasons and not because they were unionists. Remember that back then there wouldn't have been a stigma against jointing the British army unlike in post troubles Ulster.

Regarding the red hand, I wouldn't look on it favourably as you just think of loyalist flags or Tyrone GAA when you look at it. Both are things that I would rather not think about. Loyalists hijacked that symbol and it could never be seen as Irish again in my eyes.

NIMAN

Just like they hijacked the word ULSTER.

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664279#Comment_121664279

Easter eggs on the shelves in January 😃

What with all the Christmas stuff on sale last September!

I'll gladly contribute to a Poppy thread in November, but this I so far off the mark ...

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121675790#Comment_121675790

I don't understand? Why off the mark?

Easter eggs off the mark?

Yes! they are but why mention it, I don't think the thread will start to veer to milk/ dark etc.

Or is it poppies?

The thread is about poppies, but it relates to them as a symbol. They are sold in November, but the idea, the philosophy, the motivations are not time limited.

You can substitute any symbol for a poppy and still be pretty much adhering to the run of things.

I do think that they are an interesting topic for discussion as British nationalism has had major very controversial effects in recent years and some will see the poppies interlinked with their other nationalistic baubles and ideas.

Hamsterchops

... my point being that this thread is out of season, like opening a harvest thread in February or a Christmas thread in July 🎄

Nothing wrong with it, but don't expect it to hit the mark with too many respondents, as it's the wrong time of the year.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121672079#Comment_121672079

The red hand flag was the flag of the Ulster kings, famously the O'Neills from the 14thc, long before the plantations. It was used to rally the Gaelic tribes against the crown during the Nine Years War. Don't let the Billys have it - claim it back. It's ours.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676955#Comment_121676955

You know, when someone mentioned it earlier in the thread with the fact that both communities respect it, I thought they were taking the mick but it's true. It's even in my favourite game:

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676984#Comment_121676984

The red hand appears on multiple family crests all over the island. You'll find far more claiming it as their own than dismissing it.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121676773#Comment_121676773

Well just how many respondents do you think will even be aware of the poppy sales dates?

My Spar or Supervalue have never to my knowledge ever sold poppies so how can Novemver be the right time for the thread?

If you look at things from my perspective, the English or Irish citizens perspective, it matters not which one, I consider it a basic human right be able to choose of my own free will not to buy a poppy.

Now if November arrives and I end up in Spar or Supervalue wanting to choose not to buy one, that choice will not be mine to make if they don't sell the things will it?

Now I can get Kerry council or my TD involved, but I guess it will be too late for my chance to buy, or not by the time they are in stock in all the shops in Tralee.

So I would disagree, I think now is an ideal time to have the thread. People need to express their opinions on this topic now in plenty of time before the infringement of their rights on the matter stirs up very serious apathy.

[Deleted User]

Whether you agree with it or not, the poppy commemorations in Britain go on for far too long. AFAIK, it goes on for about a month, like Christmas. In my opinion, it's Unionist propaganda.

sligeach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122821613#Comment_122821613

How can you say that? When completely impartial channels like Sky News lead with charlie, laying wreaths, representing this family/institution who have never done anything wrong, anywhere in the world. And they're not living off those ill gotten gains or territory.

If I called the ~~German~~/English family what they really are, I'd get punished on this site, by an excusing English monarchist who masquerades as a mod. Why do I say that? It's happened several times before.

harryharry25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122825581#Comment_122825581

Today we had the usuals in the British Media(Daily Mail and the likes) attack James McClean for not wearing a poppy again, while ignoring the numerous other players who refuse to wear a poppy

They have then printed numerous articles about Celtic fans singing "Pro IRA songs" during the minutes silence at their game today

The song the Celtic fans were singing was Aiden McAnespie who was murdered by the British army on his way to a GAA match, and the lyrics have nothing got to do with the IRA

Journalism has gotten so bad they don't even know what songs they were singing these days, the fake outrage is ridiculous

downcow

it’s certainly not everyone associated with Celtic who behave so disrespectfully.
I am very proud of the dignified behaviour of northern Irishman Brendan Rodgers.

kneemos

It's all a bit tyrannical. Anyone appearing on live TV would probably be cancelled if they didn't have a Poppy.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122825590#Comment_122825590

Tbh i think in this day you're arseholes to be singing through a minute silence. But football and inparticular celtic/rangers does attract alot of knuckle draggars.

Live and let live. Some want to wear it fine some dont fine too but is that hard to respect a minute silence for people who do???

harryharry25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122835721#Comment_122835721

It's not a Celtic/Rangers thing, you can't force something on people

Hearts in Scotland booed the minutes silence when the pope died as they didn't agree with it

A good example is everytime Liverpool play in a Cup Final at Wembley, their fans boo God Save The Queen/King because of the the way the City has been treated by the establishment.

Working class people don't take orders from people telling them what they must do

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122835787#Comment_122835787

The establishment has spent decades starving the place of investment and funding and it used the Hillsborough tragedy to demonise the local working class.

I don't buy the poppy despite my background and I won't be observing anything that commemorates what the British state did in Northern Ireland.

NIMAN

Since the British army murdered innocent civilians in the streets on my home city, then covered it up for 40+ years, you'll forgive me for smiling every time Celtic fans disrupt the minutes silence. It's causing a lot less pain than the British Army caused around the world.

Maybe stop forcing the poppy and remembering murderers down people's throats?

Remember it if you want, wear a poppy if you want, but don't make it compulsory, which it now is in the UK.

harryharry25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122835833#Comment_122835833

Exactly here is the British Army singing the bouncy in Ibrox with Rangers fans which is a song celebrate the murder of a Catholic in the 6 counties

And people think Celtic fans should respect a minutes silence for these people

https://x.com/GlasgowIsBlue72/status/906433515650211841?t=aUgbnDprcoo-LehejiBZaQ&s=19

An Claidheamh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122833162#Comment_122833162

Well Done Celtic fans, better than some pretentious UNICEF logo.

Manic Moran

Why are people so insistent upon associating the poppy with the British Army? It's become a global symbol of remembrance, this photo was taken at my kid's school in central Texas on Monday, a place which has had basically nothing to do with the British military, ever.

I mean, whatever about Commonwealth countries like Canada or Australia, if Albania and South Korea have adopted the symbol, I think it's possible to accept the symbol for the symbol's sake without great controversy.,

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122835787#Comment_122835787

We live in a shared society. Some people might respect things that you dont. Is hard to respect people respecting things you dont?

Working class dont take orders? No they Just take free houses from the state and free money for doing nothing eh?

NIMAN

Re: the Celtic fans booing and singing during the minutes silence at the weekend, the rag that is the Daily Mail said they sung a pro-IRA song.

They didn't.

They sung a song about Aiden McAnespie, a young man shot in the back by the British army as he walked through one of their checkpoints on his way to play a GAA game. He was not an IRA member, but again just an innocent Irish civilian, but sure why let the truth get in the way of their anger.

And I don't think Rodgers condemned the Celtic fans per se. Check his wording. He said the minutes silence shouldn't have been interrupted. That's not the same thing.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122835928#Comment_122835928

Why are people so insistent upon associating the poppy with the British Army? It's become a global symbol of remembrance

Because people in the North still remember having to identify their bullet riddled love ones and celebrating the people who did that may still touch a bit of a nerve.

How that is so hard to understand or brings up the same old scutter conversation every year is baffling.

Some people don't want to subscribe to the bollíx for various different reasons, some because their sons head was blown off by a sniper others because they think it's a bunch of old fanny.

Who every wants to wear the stupid looking yoke let them, whoever doesn't let them.

It is really simple.

harryharry25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122836055#Comment_122836055

Exactly

**** the British army and **** Israel

Some posters on here will hate that

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122835928#Comment_122835928

where are the funds raised by the sale of those poppies going?

If it was to 'the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan' would you have a problem with some Americans choosing not to wear one?

Manic Moran

As far as I know, no Americans fought for the Brave Mujahideen Fighters of Afghanistan, so I'm not sure the comparison is entirely apt.

In any case, the RBL-ROI poppy funds never leave the Republic of Ireland. I'm pretty sure this all got hashed out after Varadaker wore one a couple years ago. But if you really don't want to give money to RBL-ROI regardless of where the money stays, maybe there are other sources of poppy to go to?

myfreespirit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122836085#Comment_122836085

+1 to this.

The poppy, originally a symbol of remembrance of the horrible, industrial-scale slaughter of millions in WW1, has become a militaristic emblem, with almost tyrannical compulsion to wear the symbol in Britain. Those in the public eye, who decline to wear it are ridiculed and attacked. Just look at any British TV during November, very few presenters are not wearing it.

It really has no place in Ireland.