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Different Relationship Boundaries

galwaygirl2024

Looking for advice on how I should handle this:

About a year ago, my husband and I started going through marriage difficulties, we had an active sex life but he wanted to explore different things, like threesomes, sex parties and kinkier stuff in the bedroom. I found this very difficult to navigate and very outside my comfort zone but I made a number of changes to try to satisfy him. At the same time he opened up about these issues to his massage therapist whom he had been visiting for a couple of months and whom he had begun to see as a friend. I already felt that the relationship was unprofessional because right from the start she asked him a lot of personal questions while massaging him rather than being client-led, and when he told me about opening up to her I was again very upset and felt trust had been broken.

Over the following weeks of conversation, it came out that she was talking openly about her sexual experiences, she had told him she had a really high sex drive and that her new boyfriend was not satisfying her, and she told him about previous relationships and quite wild things she had explored with previous partners. I felt totally disrespected by this, especially as these sexual conversations occurred while she was massaging him. I asked if he was aroused by this and he said no it wasn’t those kind of conversations. My husband explained that this was just a small part of the conversations he had with her, and that he valued her friendship and that she had been a positive support during our relationship issues.

Another few weeks passed and my husband told me he wanted to start socialising with this woman, including inviting her to a party we were hosting. I again was upset and explained by feelings of discomfort about the increasing level of relationship between them and that I didn’t like the idea of them going to the pub together while we were going through difficulties. My husband said he felt controlled and that he didn’t want to stop the friendship and there was nothing else going on. He felt she was providing much needed support that I was not giving him. I asked if he was attracted to her and he said no, but had admitted previously that she is attractive.

She came to the party and it was ok, except at one point while I was explaining to a friend about a crazy dream I had where someone had mentioned a threesome, she came over during the conversation and said “well it sounds like you got the threesome you always wanted”. She then stayed really late and at 3am only her my husband and 1 other person was awake, I said I wanted to get to bed and she told me to go to bed, I said I would wait until everyone left and she just kept saying no you go ahead, you go to bed. I ended up going to bed and she stayed until about 6am in my living room.

I have passed her a few times while shopping and she was ignored me once and the other time barely responded when I said hello. I found that odd.

She showed my husband a photo of herself wearing a revealing top, apparently because she wanted to show him pictures of her sister. My husband said when she turned the phone to him he said “I don’t think I should be looking at this” because he thought it looked like a bra. He was laughing as he told me this.

I have tried to explain these hurts to my husband. He feels it is a good friendship and I need to learn to accept it. He can understand how it looks bad but says that’s just how I focus on certain things, and that there is no sense of attraction between them. He promised to stop the friendship if he felt that change. Despite this, I feel such pain, every few weeks she seems to be more infiltrated into my life, they are set on keeping this friendship going. It hurts that he gets so much from her, while our relationship is crumbling, but he won’t take a step back from it. He says she boosts his ego. My husband has had beautiful looking friends in the past and I have been supportive of that, even when a silly rumour about an affair came up about them, I totally trusted my husband but I feel this is too much.

There are other behaviours aside from this that have hurt me, such as sharing a room with a single woman while abroad. I still trust him through all this, he is upfront about everything, never hides his phone etc. It is just that we cannot see eye to eye on this at all.

We are both seeing counsellors separately but them seem to just validate our separate points of view. Couples counselling is our next step but I don’t see it working when we cannot see eye to eye.

Where on earth do I go from here?

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helimachoptor

Tbh I don’t see this ending well.

the masseuse seems to have a similar view on sex to your husband, if he’s not sleeping with her it’ll happen soon enough.

her being parachuted into your lives, the writing is on the wall.

steinbock123

1) Sharing his room with a single woman while abroad ???? WTF ???

2) If he never hides his phone, he might just have another one!!

If I was you, I’d be telling him to cut out the “massages” - tell him if he wants a massage that YOU’LL do it for him in future. See what he makes of that.

eastie17

Sorry you are having these problems OP.

A good relationship is about respecting the other parties feelings and compromise. I believe that even if one party doesnt really see the problem initially, if they care about their partner they will try to see their side, and if its a reasonable request, which yours is, change the behaviour for the good of the relationship, even if they dont really want to.

this is something that goes to the heart of your relationship and it sounds in some ways, from what you have said that he is almost trying to push you away OR he has such little respect for you that he is not willing to make this change.

He is valuing her friendship more than your relationship, there is no other way to dress it up.

Couples counselling is a good next step, where hopefully a third party hearing both sides will provide solid advice and hopefully make him see your side and ultimately sense.

If it does not there are only two choices unfortunately, you either live with it or start making more firm demands with specific ultimatums, that may of course lead to a breakup ultimately but there is a possibility that he doesn't see this is as serious as it is and that course of action may make him wake up.

bucketybuck

I know where I would be going from here.

You say you still trust him and only you can decide that. But don't be too shocked if/when you find out you were wrong to do so.

thefa

The closeness and over sharing of sexual views and experiences would be very worrying to me also. The fact she is a massage therapist doesn’t help either and complaining of her current partner not satisfying her is too much.

My wife and myself have discussed and explored kinks ourselves. Similar to yourself, these were initially led by one person and progressed over a long period of time with trust/understanding being built to try together. Discretion is huge for us and neither of us would dream about sharing with even our closest friends.

Maybe your husband is under the wrong impression and thinks you have a similar openness these days as himself so it’s why he discusses her so openly with you. He’s said this is an ego boost for him but he needs to acknowledge what affect it has on you and how he would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.

I’m not sure I’d be able to cope with the disrespect of your husband or the other woman. Like even that situation at your house party was too much. I think getting another opinion through the counselor might help him see but I’d be thinking he might have one foot out the door if he sees no issue here.

89897

Hes being massaged by an attractive woman (who he seems a bit obsessed with) and talking about sexual fantasies at the same time..... hes 100% getting off on this.

He suddenly wants to open up the marriage, wants to go out with this woman, inviting her to parties but most importantly hes dismissing your feelings entirely. What hes doing is pushing the boundaries further and further to see how much he can get away with and not be called a cheater.

Marital problems arent one sided, OP he needs to start taking heed of your feelings and wants and you need to start putting the foot down. I dont think you do fully trust him (i think you want to) cause otherwise why open the thread.

iniscealtra

It seems you are the only one making compromises here. You have made changes that you are not comfortable with to accommodate him and he is still pushing. This is not good.

You need to have a clear talk with him on things that are unacceptable to you. He seems to think he can push anything he chooses onto you regardless of your feelings. This is not ok in my opinion. He lacks respect and understanding. He doesn’t sound like he wants to be married let alone in a relationship. He comes across as callous and selfish from what you’ve said.

You need to stand up for yourself big time.

[Deleted User]

I'd agree with the other posters.

This attractive woman massages him, tells him her current partner isn't satisfying her sexually, and listens to him talk about his sexual fantasies. It's hardly a huge jump that they would go from those conversations to having sex with one another. It does sound like a serious problem for your marriage. There's no problem with having friends of the opposite sex, but this is something different.

Can I ask, why on earth was he sharing a room with another woman?

Goodigal

There's no way he hasn't crossed a line sexually with this woman. Even his alleged conversations are crossing a line.

I feel you're getting pulled and dragged into a way of life you don't want to be engaging in, and it's time to start saying no. This isn't a long time friendship with another person, she's in your marriage right now from what you have described. You need to stand up for yourself right now and find your voice.

HildaOgdenx

Mod - Please bear in mind that PI is not a discussion forum.

As per the charter:

Personal Issues is an advice forum.
Posters are required to offer advice to the OP in their replies.

Thanks

Hilda

marilynrr

So he has an inappropriate relationship with this woman that almost everyone wouldn't be ok with and when you try to maintain some boundaries even though he's already pushed this too far he says he feels controlled. Typical nonsense designed to shut you down and shut you up.

He's gaslighting you. 99.99% of women (or men, if the situations were reversed) would not be ok with it but he's trying to make out that your perfectly valid and rational opinions on this and reaction to this is a you problem.

Were you comfortable with the stuff you did do? Did he make sure that you were? or did you feel coerced? Were you ok about them afterwards or do you feel that they affected you negatively?

If he's not already sleeping with his 'friend' then it sounds like he's telling you everything so that you will think "oh **** there are women out there who can fulfil all his sexual needs, I better up my game".

He felt she was providing much needed support that I was not giving him.

Of course he did. 🙄 More trying to shut you down and shut you up.

I'm not surprised you still 'trust' him, he's manipulative, has an answer for everything, is clearly able to paint you as the unreasonable, irrational one while he's so mature and sensible. I can't see this having a happy ending, even with counselling, he sounds incredibly selfish and does what suits him and doesn't care about the impact on you, and is likely to be cheating anyway.

Personally I'd leave him because I can't see him changing (for the better, I can see him changing for the worst alright) but you should at least try to take back some control. No point in trying to reason with him or explain your feelings, he knows and doesn't care. I think you should use your counselling sessions to start to detach from your husband and to learn that having strong boundaries means that if you have a boundary and then other person crosses it then you leave them. Perhaps you might need a new therapist who can help you to do that.

Do you have children? Are you in a position where you could leave financially? Do you have a good support system?

Furze99

Sounds like he wants to keep his cake and to eat it.

marilynrr

Just re-read your post and it really does seem like triangulation which is a form of emotional abuse.

I mean wtf is this

and telling you she told him she has a high sex drive and her new boyfriend can't satisfy her, all while she's massaging him. Inviting her to your home and staying downstairs with her after she insisted you go to bed. Saying she boosts his ego and gives him 'support'. What support does he need exactly?

The actual cheek of him to make out to you that he feels controlled, I would say it's the other way around and he is very much trying to control you by manipulating you into thinking he needs this from other women and needs this and that sexually and you have to provide x and y and give him the freedom to do whatever else he wants.

It's one thing cheating, but sounds like this guy is cheating AND trying to **** with your head along with it by telling you all about the relationship between them, just leaving out the having sex part.

What do YOU want in a marriage?

Do you want monogamy?

Do you want to engage in kinks and sex parties?

Do you want a man who thinks he should be allowed to get ego boosts from other women? and who thinks these intimate relationships with other women are appropriate. Or do you want a man who is happy with just you?

**** what he wants. Think about what you want for your life going forward.

What was your marriage like prior to him wanting to have threesomes or sex parties? Was there mutual respect and agreement in all areas? Could you advocate for yourself and what you wanted and needed?

YellowLead

I’m so sorry you’re in this position OP. He’s having an emotional affair with this woman which may or may not have turned physically sexual (it’s definitely not appropriate to be discussing their sex lives while the massage is going on).

It seems like he might be the kind of guy that wants to have the next woman lined up before he leaves the previous one. Has he made any efforts to reassure you comfort you made any compromises or paid you attention? It sounds (and sorry to be blunt) like he’s done with your relationship, isn’t willing to put the work in and has been attracted by a new and shiny toy who has practically thrown herself at him. It sounds like you are doing all the right things, think about how long you can put up with his behaviour- you deserve love and respect and if that’s gone staying will be harder than leaving.

CivilCybil

I'm so sorry you're going through this OP. It seems to me that your husband is being extremely disrespectful of you and your marriage.

A counsellor gave me some good advice many years ago that I still try to use to this day. It is basically to think of you as you were before this all started. And ask that version of you, if your husband was doing all of the things he is now doing what would you have said or done?

Sometimes a person can break us down, bit by bit and piece by piece until we no longer recognise where our own values and boundaries lie. Because they've been chipped away at over time. Something we would NEVER have accepted becomes acceptable.

I have been in a position similar to you where a person was gaslighting me that their friendship with a person was innocent despite a lot of evidence to the contrary. I put my foot down that the inappropriate friendship had to end, that our relationship had to be prioritised and was told no. And that told me all I needed to know so I left.

You deserve so much better than what you are being given here OP. Don't let your values and beliefs be compromised any further.

Hannibal_Smith

OP, you're doing everything your husband wants and moved outside of your comfort zone in a number of ways. He's asked you to do things sexually that you're not comfortable with and he's asked you to accept a 'friendship' that you're not happy with.

Loyalty and faithfulness are the two main components in a marriage and its ok to want that from your marriage. Even for couples who explore threesomes etc, it's never (or at least rarely) one part of the couple that's interested and the other being reluctantly dragged along. It's both of the couple being equally up for it.

Your husband has told you all about these conversations that he's had for no other reason than to make you feel sh*t and to make you feel that if he did have an affair or cross the line with this woman then its all your fault. You're not wrong for drawing the line with what you're comfortable with sexually. You're not wrong for being uncomfortable with a friendship your husband has formed with a masseuse who apparently he's had disrespectful (to you) conversations with. He's not controlled in any way, if he wants those things he doesn’t get to be in your marriage.

Big Bag of Chips

Trust your gut. It's rarely wrong.

Panthro

Very hard not to read the OPs post and not think the message therapist wants her husband, and the husband is absolutely loving the attention he's getting.

Neither of them are to be trusted.

Akrasia

Unfortunately it seems that your husband is choosing this other woman ahead of you.

That must be heartbreaking but if you let him string it out, it'll just make you feel worse. You should give him the ultimatum. Cut ties with the massage therapist or you're leaving.

Given that this woman has disrespected you personally, it's a completely reasonable request even if your husband hasn't yet physically cheated on you with her (It sounds like he already has tbh)