I don’t think there is an open side in the Irish system that is a good lineout option, so not sure why JVDF is singled out.
McCarthy has been good in lineouts this season. He’s not Leinster’s first option, but he’s a fairly regular jumper for a tight head lock, and certainly is utilised more than someone like Jean Kleyn would typically be.
He’s one of the most in form players in Irish rugby this season, and brings a level of physicality and carrying that none of our other second row options possess.
I’d have him on the bench in Marseille.
My team right now, assuming all training squad members are healthy:
Keenan, Nash, Ringrose, Aki, Lowe, Crowley, Gibson Park, Porter, Sheehan, Furlong, Beirne, Ryan, O’Mahony, Van der Flier, Doris.
Reps: Kelleher, Healy, Bealham, McCarthy, Baird, Casey, Frawley, Henshaw.
I don’t think Farrell will plump for either McCarthy or Baird though, it’ll probably be Henderson and Conan.
Because he doesn’t jump so there is one less jumper. Timoney does jump if you wanted to play him there. Doris can and he can play 7. POM can play 7 and he obviously jumps.
I’m not saying replace him but the fact he doesn’t jump would def be factored in when putting together the back 5 in the pack.
Timoney isn’t much of a lineout option, and certainly isn’t good enough there to make up for all the other ways he’s deficient to Van der Flier.
O’Mahony is not a credible option at 7 at this stage either.
You aren’t really understanding my point. It doesn’t matter what the other options are if one of your back five doesn’t jump. It knocks on to choices elsewhere in the back 5. That’s just a fact of rugby. The lineout is the most important set piece. They care about stuff like that.
vdF is a lineout option, just.. not as a jumper
No, you missed my point - most teams don't have an openside flanker who jumps in the lineout. Opensides are usually the shortest member of the back five and typically have a squatter frame than blindsides, 8's and locks, and therefore aren't the most conducive to being effective lineout jumpers.
You're trying to claim here Ireland have some sort of special weakness by having JVDF as a non-jumping 7, but it's a common enough issue across the vast majority of teams.
It will be interesting to see if Ireland start to use some of the tactics NZ did
So ROG talked about it last year and La Rochelle was looking at a second row lifting a second row in lineout to disrupt. It was a joke on the podcast and ROG said he had no idea what them lads got up to at lineout but left them to it
NZ used that against our lineout in the qtr's and trying to remember now but I think it ended up with an over throw. I never seen in La Rochelle actually used it but i think ROG mentioned they did in one game
Would Paulie try to get Hendo/JVDF lifting Ryan/Beirne in the lineout?
I thought La Rochelle fairly regularly use Skelton as a lifter?
From recollection it was Skelton been lifted, I would have to try go back and find it in the middle of 100s of OTB podcasts
Yeah, I remember it being noteworthy when they lifted him in a game against Saracens, up at 2. I don't think he was even wearing lifting blocks, and Saracens never got anyone up as apparently they'd no expectation of him being lifted.
He was lifted at the front obviously quite a few times in the final in May as well against us.
Generally though - he acts as a lifter for them. Having someone of his size and power as a lifter (along with guys like Atonio) must give a huge edge to them.
Whatever about picking the best team etc and POM having to start as captain which he will, I feel the pressure is on fogarty and POC to sort out our line out and scrums as they were probably the reason we exited the WC at quarter final and nearly lost to SA in pool stage too because of it. We used to have a very solid line out and regularly pinched a few ourselves but now it's heart in mouth stuff just to secure our own ball and also we are always saying our front row is world class but we do give up a lot of scrum penalties in games so I think if these are not improved in the 6N then Farrell may swing his axe
I doubt he will let POC go.
I don't think our scrum was a huge issue, more a reading of the ref on what Porter was up to in the scrum.
I can't remember now but was the scrum a big issue v SA? I know the lineout was but that was on ropes from warm up
If the line out or scrum are not working, he should bring someone in that can fix it. O'Connell should go if he can't do the job.
POC will absolutely be under pressure to fix the lineout. It was a mess in the World Cup and while you'll get some leeway for not being able to fix something essentially on the hoof, it won't be good enough if it is a problem again in the 6N.
Yeah, as much as I have reasons not to throw Joe McCarthy in, lack of lineout ability definitely isn't one of them...
I wouldn't be surprised if they just looked to mix up the coaching ticket again. Easterby was once the forwards coach and, when things got stale, he moved to the defence to huge success.
POC has been the forwards/lineout coach for 3 years now. It might be time to freshen things up and rotate the responsibilities. They'll potentially need to bring someone extra in for the end of year anyway if Easterby takes over the main job for 2025.
That's possible. The only main thing about POC is that I would question just how much he is committed to taking on other roles and making coaching his career. He has had a very odd coaching journey so far.
You PERCEIVED that i was saying that ireland had some kind of special weakness, because VdF plays for Leinster and that activated the hyper dramatic defense mechanism you have going on there.
All, I actually meant was that if you have McCarthy and VdF in the same pack build you only have three proven lineout operators. Which is true and would be a real consideration for an international rugby coach.
Only because in your blinkered view of this, you're claiming Joe McCarthy isn't a proven lineout option.
That is my view. We can definitely agree to disagree on whether Joe McCarthy is a proven line-out option though.
What more is there to prove? He jumps regularly for Leinster.
It's hard for a guy at 22 to be a proven anything, but he's been a very good lineout option for Leinster this season in both URC and Champions Cup.
Yea this year. I want to see more than that. People treat the lineout like if you jumped a few times, that’s it, you are international calibre.
He is a good defensive lineout jumper for Leinster and has disrupted a number of lineouts.
Ryan and POM are two of the best defensive lineout jumpers in the world in my opinion. The problem is that we would have Ryan (assuming he isn’t dropped) McCarthy, POM and Doris which to me is light in the offensive lineout. I’d much rather have Beirne or Henderson there.
The poor line out cost us in the world cup, imo. If it's not fixed, adios Paulie!
Ahern is really missing out especially with the lineout in mind. Obviously not for 6 nations but later in year maybe. Dude is built to be a great lineout jumper. Once you bedded him in, you could give him a ton of involvements there.
Baird and Ahern are ready made replacements for POM if we want a line out specialist at 6
Think they have surpassed him already in terms of their abilities. They offer more than POM in attack by some distance, as well as being excellent in defense and set piece
I think people under-rate POM's handling when talk about his contributions in attack. He's never had big carry stats or anything like that, but he's an excellent handler and distributer.
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