The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.
It's not really free if one provider got massive help 10 years before anyone else, access to public parking spaces at possibly zero rent, access to motorway services for free, and is running not as a commercial model proving charging for nothing for years, and probably has more sites than anyone. Free market is not exactly how I would put that.
It cannot be profiteering, it is a free market and folks are free to use other networks.
You're right. Cork city is a nightmare for charging. I often grab a fast charge at fermoy and again on the way north. Otherwise it's what you experienced, or a walk to a 11kw charger, costing nearly the same as a fast charger.
Cork really needs 3-4 hubs around the outskirts.
Zero chance of it being sold off.
I guess the best way to set the price is based on utilisation. Charge enough so you are busy with little Queues.
charge to little and there will be constant queues, charge to much and you’ll have poor utilisation
ECars don’t get overtime. Its not easier to get paid well if you are I a profitable division. The organisational structure simply doesn’t allow it.
To stay in the job and possibly get promoted etc. it looks good tombe making theoretical long term profits rather than losses. I think it's also structured so it could be sold off at a later stage. The provided a service at no fee for many years so it's a strange set up. The are the default and only provider to many in terms of lots of people have no idea if non esb options and queue at ESB sites while similar easygo etc sites are not in use today. I saw only today one car on ChaDeMo and another car on AC while probably a nearby 50kW lidl easygo site was probably unused less than 200 metres away. As a result they may have a monopoly mindset, with no serious competitors. They may also be more holistic have sites scattered all over the place with many sites in unviable locations, rather than cut throat commercial operators kicking ESB out of their sites and providing expensive basic services at motorways that are sure to be busy a lot and highly profitable.
It may be a measure of incompetence, commercial realities, taking the mick on pricing to justify more expansion. Remember if sites are profitable on paper based on today's profit margin it may justify expanding existing sites and building new sites (e.g. Blanchardstown), while if prices were lower it might make no sense. It helps staff job security, makes their CV look.good and possibly hiring more staff adding middle management promotion prospects etc. It's easier to get paid well if you are in a profitable expanding division. There may even be overtime, weekend work, on call rates etc.
Without insight into their cost of operations it's hard to tell. They may have seen that customers were willing to pay the current prices justifying more investment into expanding the network.
We can only compare their prices to other commercial operators and see that they are broadly aligned.
If you think that operators are colluding over pricing you should contact the competition authority, if you think they are all just independently fleecing customers you've identified a gap in the market and it's time to start building out your own charging network.
It’s effectively a state body which inevitably explains most of it’s shortcomings.
Why have they not reduced price? Are they simply very bad at negotiating fixed price contracts, or do they need the revenue for something else? Are they even able to set their own prices?
Cork Airport another option. 2 x 50kW chargers (one for taxi but public can us it). My Weev app or ePower work and only 30c per kW. FYI
What sort of clown would waste an hour of his time hanging around a Circle K paying 68c a kWh to charge a Hybrid Rangerover ?
It is 95%. ( actually higher at the moment ), that’s. Typo.
I know wikipedia isn't the most reliable of sources, but it lists the ownership as 95% Government and 5% employee ownership.
do you want proof that the government own 95%
do you want proof that the unions would not allow a handful of people receive incentives for making a profit from ECars ?
do you want proof the earth isn’t flat?
The shareholders are the Irish Government. Excess profits are returned to the government as a dividend.
Had a horrible day when it came to charging yesterday. Yet again!
Frankfield in Cork. I needed to get a charge to finish my trip. Only other chargers on my route were SPOF.
Ended up queuing on the roundabout for 20 mins to get to the charger. Chargers on the app were available. Pulled into the chargers to see a dpd van just plugging in & the other charger had been in use for 15 mins or so. I thought feck it I will just have to wait, the other option was to go to Rochestown but only one hi speed charger there & a 50kw & knowing my luck they would be taken when I get there.
Omg! It was a brand new 24c range rover charging with no one sitting in it. I asked the dpd driver after 30 mins did he think he would be much longer & he said he needed at least an hour in total!
There was a guy in a helly hansen could be seen occasionally on the phone so I approached him eventually & asked him if the RR was his & did he think he would be much longer as he had been charging almost an hour at that stage. He reckoned he had only been charging 35 mins & wound too much longer that his RR was at 88% last time he looked. He was they almost an hour as I could see from the app. He eventually went & disconnected as I stayed hovering near him.
I was so polite everytime I asked either driver but it was horrendous.
Its ridiculous that there is no hub near Cork. 2 at frankfield is pathetic. It's normally full of taxis but at least they move off quickly enough.
Another dpd van pulled in behind his mate waiting to take his spot after about 30 mins. there needs to be a much heftier overstay fee.
From the time we took the ramp to the charger & left again it was at least 100 minutes for a 17 minute charge. It was appalling in a city the size of Cork.
I will have to think about reverting to the diesel for any trip outside the range
Do you have proof of this?
ECars aren’t profit oriented, the staff receive no incentive for a profit , the shareholders don’t push or apply pressure.
First time using the esb hub at the plaza Kinnegad yesterday. No waiting, no awkward parking and in/out before we knew it.
Hard to look across at the covered forecourt when the rain came lashing down though...
So you agree it's most likely profiteering?
i didn't put this in.the new charger thread as it looks very not operational yet.
I expect esb pricing is as high as they can get away with. High pricing makes the chargers look much more viable and were copied by other competitors who also have not dropped pricing.
That was an interesting one in December of 2022 raising prices based on wholesale as it was widely reported in the media at the time that wholesale prices were falling
Also interesting to note that ecars increased their prices twice (or was it 3 times?) in 2022. An assumption could be made that they renegotiate the price they pay more than once a year and yet it's been 13 months since the last price change with no sign of a drop coming
Perhaps ecars could explain that one to us?
Happy to clarify, and you are correct. I am referring to John Byrne, head of ecars.
Who makes pricing decisions in ecars, or is it decided outside of ecars management.
I'm asking that as a genuine question. Their email to me about their 2022 price increases was not signed or signed off by any person.
ECars does not have a CEO. Has there been a staff change ?
I know this. Fixed Price Contracts are for set times and renegotiated based on wholesale rates and how they are expected to change.
Their CEO indicated last August eCars were contracted at high prices until last autumn. He said reductions would follow once these contracts were renegotiated.
If you go back a page or two, I posted that article and asked why nothing has changed since then.
ECars aren’t paying wholesale prices , they are in fixed price contracts .
Lots of good detail about CapEx Vs OpEx.
Price rises since 2022 were attributed, however, to increases in the wholesale cost of electricity, so wholly operational.
As wholesale costs have now dropped, and these reductions are filtering through to other markets, then it's reasonable to expect pricing esb e-cars to fall, no? That's all we are asking.
Here's the wording they gave for a 2022 price rise:
"Unfortunately, sustained higher wholesale energy costs throughout Europe means that we continue to experience a very substantial increase in the cost of wholesale electricity, which we must reluctantly pass onto our customers."
It is the angle. I couldn't take the picture perpendicular as there was a delivery van and few other cars parked taking the view.
Hopefully its a trick of the camera, but looks like the second charger only has space of one bay. If thats the case they could have spun the charger around so the cables were facing the front.
Its interesting regarding EasyGo, that their closest comparison in NI is Weev, who started aiming for AC and a little DC, but have pivoted quickly to as much DC as they can get. Even more now that they received additional investment from Octopus, as they're looking at hubs with canopies etc. They clearly see DC, and high power DC / Ultra-rapid DC as they way forward. It seems they get better usage therefore a better return, despite the higher investment required.
ESB eCars now own the network. It was officially transferred about a year ago, and was apparently one of the things that held them up.
I am not sure. They were free until very recently and they rebranded to same name as ROI. One reason for NI issues I believe may have been local councils needed to tender out or bid for charger replacements rather than just let ecars swap out existing units. Again I do t know details but legal and political can have a major impact on these projects.
