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BER Technical thread

lottyprop

I am a qualified but as of yet unregistered BER assessor. I work in property management and initially my plan was to assess my own properties. However prior to doing so I want to be sure I am 100% confident in my ability as an assessor.

So far this year our company has had 4 properties assessed by a registered BER assessor. I have assessed each of those properties unofficially and come out with the same result for 2 of the 4. Who was more correct ? Honestly I don't know!

I would like to start a thread BER assessors could share knowledge and ideas. I know I would benefit form it and I am sure other assessors would too. I would like to emphasize that I don't plan on being a site parasite. I have done both new and existing BER courses and have followed them up with a significant amount of practice and research. I will willingly answer any BER related questions that I possibly can ..

If I can get the ball rolling with a question ...

If an external door is 40% glazing it's default u-value must be adjusted as follows :

(glazing u-val x 40) + (door u-val x 60) / 100

My question is where does the glazing come from. An obvious way of getting this u-val would be to use the DEAP software and input the glazing area under the windows section and then use this u-value..

This is what I have been doing for my unofficial assessments ? is this the correct way of doing it?

Also if there is a glass panel to the side of the door, should the entire opening be treated as the door with the glazed side panel a percentage of the door or should the side panel be treated as a separate window?

I realise these make very little difference but I am anxious to get my assessment procedure as accurate as possible before offering my services.

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sydthebeat

THE DON FANUCCI wrote: »

ok if I stick in 150mm pumped cavity and solar panels.
how expensive is mhrv and is it any good?

Not ok. Like I said there's only one way of knowing.

You need to hire someone to do this

RORY O CONNOR

You need to get a preliminary BER done on the design and ensure that the U values for the floor, the roof and the walls are achieved, plus your solar panel and main heating system needs to be designed and specified in order to comply with the requirements of Part L. There are other bits to consider too and you will need a competent BER guy to provide you with the exact specifications in order to comply with Part L

sydthebeat

Anyone else noticed the completely ridiculous "error notices" they have included as extra now when you upload to NAS ??

there had been 87 of them, most of which made sense
http://www.seai.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_FAQ/FAQ_DEAP/NAS_Errors_Notices/?viewall=1

now though there seems to be a lot more for some strange reason, and some of the are off the wall crazy.
The vast, vast majority of secondary space heating fraction inputs will be 0.1... but yet i get a warning to say that "unexpected secondary space heating fraction" ??

another one... apartment floor to ceiling height of 2.57 and i get "One or more floor height is not within the expected range"... like WTF.. what range do they expect??

ive gone from on average having 1 or 2 error notices (usual ones to be expected) to on average 5 or 6.

do they not realise that over loading error messages will just lead to them being disregarded completely?

Rabbo

Totally agree. When I used to get the one or two error notices, I used to put in a little note before publishing saying why I didn't think they were an issue. Now, when there's so many non sensical notices, I don't bother anymore. It's amazing that the 0.1 secondary space heating fraction error is still up there since they updated it a few weeks ago.

Saying that, all that inconvenience pales in comparison with the new 20 page Heat Pump methodology for new builds. The dealing with HP manufacturers to give you required data, the interpretation and filling in of the endless figures, trying to get a plumber to sign off on the design and then you learn that he decided to install a slightly different heat pump putting a question over the whole houses compliance with building regs.

Or better again, the air tightness exceeding expectations, reducing the heat demand and effectively making the house non-compliant with the renewables requirements just because it is too efficient.

sydthebeat

Rabbo wrote: »

Or better again, the air tightness exceeding expectations, reducing the heat demand and effectively making the house non-compliant with the renewables requirements just because it is too efficient.

yeah... that ones a doozie alright.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

i wouldnt mind but the solution is so simple... just make it a percentage of the final energy demand.

10% of 60 kwhr is 6kwhr renewables required for a typical A3 rating

10% of 40 kwhr is 4kwhr renewables for an A2 etc... thus making it more attractive to become more efficient...

and also leads to greater "first principles" approach to energy efficient building than the "bolt on technology" we currently need to get over the line....

sydthebeat

Rabbo wrote: »

Saying that, all that inconvenience pales in comparison with the new 20 page Heat Pump methodology for new builds. The dealing with HP manufacturers to give you required data, the interpretation and filling in of the endless figures, trying to get a plumber to sign off on the design and then you learn that he decided to install a slightly different heat pump putting a question over the whole houses compliance with building regs.
.

just on this... what i do is send on the xml file to the heat pump suppliers and let them input their details into it, thus letting them take the responsibility for correct inputs.
they then send me back the xml file and i complete it.

Rabbo

sydthebeat wrote: »

just on this... what i do is send on the xml file to the heat pump suppliers and let them input their details into it, thus letting them take the responsibility for correct inputs.
they then send me back the xml file and i complete it.

I do the same but I was at a SEAI workshop recently and they are advising that the BER assessor has ultimate responsibility on what is inputted on those forms so, while it is useful to get manufacturers to infill the data, it is up to you to check that it is correct against the product fiches/certified data.

It should be a case of assessors just picking a product from HARP (or similar) and the data being transposed into DEAP. SEAI have said that this is the eventual goal but the current methodology was just a backstop as they had to react to the new ECODESIGN legislation and revise the way we assess Heat Pumps. I don't think BER assessors are qualified or should be expected to sift through reams of certification data and try to pick out relevant figures for assessment.

sydthebeat

Rabbo wrote: »

they are advising that the BER assessor has ultimate responsibility on what is inputted on those forms so,

Typical SEAI stock answer really....

however this is the pertinent issue

Rabbo wrote: »

I don't think BER assessors are qualified or should be expected to sift through reams of certification data and try to pick out relevant figures for assessment.

we are absolutely NOT qualified to assess whether the data provided by the HP manufacturers are accurate or not.... surely accepting them is akin to (or exceeds) accepting an architect or builders word that the ACDs have been adhered to.

simply throwing up a 20 page "guideline", at any stretch, does not making assessors qualified to assess this information.

andy6

This is probably in the wrong section? Can anyone recommend a BER assessor in Arklow thanks!

descol

I can't see the appropriate place for this query - if anyone on the BER tread can assist - it would be appreciated

My query relates to PV input into DEAP

There seems to be two inputs required - one being the Delivered Energy - which in my case is 4000 kWh p/a the other is a figure for Part L contribution

Can anyone advise how the Part L contribution is calculated ?

thank in advance

Descol

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119546443#Comment_119546443

its the same figure.

unless youre constructing a new dwelling, its inconsequential

how did you get to such a clean figure as 4000 kWh/yr?

descol

thanks Syd - somebody did tell me it was the same figure - good of you to confirm - I got the 4000 figure from the PV company - 10400w panels -does that make sense ?

descol

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548052#Comment_119548052

do you mean 10 x 400 watt panels??

if so you need to use the formula 0.80 × kWp × S × ZPV to work out the kWh/yr figure.

so assuming youve a south facing roof at 30 degrees, thats 0.8 x 4 x 1074 x 1 = 3436.8 kWh/yr (which is the figure you use in DEAP for delivered energy)

note, any other orientation or roof angle, or any over shading, will mean a reduction of this figure

BAABAA96

Hi All,

I'm in a similar situation. I've just bought an old ex-council house in Dublin (I believe from the 1930's). The BER advice we got was a little frightening and the costs involved would prohibitive to get everything done at this stage.

Would anyone have recommendations on where to start with bringing up the energy rating of the house?

In my head I would probably do the following, then try to save towards some of the other jobs:

1 - Attic insulation - Everyone I've spoken with said I should DIY this, even with the grant available. Anyone with similar experience, or anyone that has got a professional to do it? I'm not the handiest of people

2 - Windows and doors - We have someone organised to look at these but basically the windows are doors are old and leaking heat (tangible drafts on some)

3 - New flooring - we have picked out a nice 12mm wood floors with a heavy underlay

4 - heating controls upgrade - The boiler seems to actually work well so I dont think it needs replacement, but getting better control over the time and zone of the house that gets heated is surely worth investing in?

If anyone has any recommendations please let me know!!

descol

Hi out there - grateful for comments on retrofitting glass in pvc framed windows

If old glass, in either single or double glazed windows is replaced with something like the "energlaze" product - and the frames remain - what - if any - improvement can be expected in the U value of the overall window ?

thanks

descol

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120137857#Comment_120137857

is this a technical BER question, or just a general query?

Rougies

Hi, sorry if this question has been asked before. After looking at multiple BER advisory reports, it always lists suspended timber floors as "No Upgrade" available. Any idea why this is? I know suspended timber floors can be insulated, although it's a big job for sure.

Muahahaha

Just wondering does there exist a tick list of measures needed to be taken to achieve an A2 rating? Failing that is the DEAP(sp?) software that BER results are based on available publicly or only by license? Ive done some measures to my home and am getting more done next month (solar) after which a BER will be done for a grant. But would like to know approx what rating the house is right now, what impact the solar will have and what more needs to be done to get up to A2 or close to it

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625019#Comment_121625019

there are older versions of the software available to download as an xls file (google deap software excel file)

the current system is web based and you need to be an assessor to log in to use it.

so while the older system is outdated, it ill give you a general idea of the uplift you get from your upgrades.

be doubly warned though:

the xls spreadsheet is quite detailed and much harder interface to follow in comparison to the web based system and even the old 3.2 interface

plus, you will need to study the DEAP manual intensely, as the conventions can be quite weird, and the definitions of some things can be not what you expect

Muahahaha

Thanks for that Syd though it sounds like its beyond my station if I dont fully understand the fabrics of buildings to begin with.

Would you know of any resource where a tick list of what is typically needed on building a new home to A2 is published? I know this isnt an exact science but Im just trying to get an idea of where Im at. So something that would list measures XYZ needed and variations thereof. Ive an idea in my head of what it requires in terms of insulation, heating and renewables having seen friends recently built A2 rated homes but Im just looking for a resource that would confirm what I think I know and maybe add to it.