Given there’s active planning permission for apartments on site and we’ve just got white smoke on the Horgan’s Quay and Marina Quarter developments it’s not as slim as it was a few months ago.
Unless JCD have something big and solid confirmed with a major office tenant you’d imagine apartments are more likely than offices at this rate.
Unless gov are happy to pick up a tab of 3k an apartment a month or finance a housing body to buy at 600k an apartment it’s unlikely to be apartments. Can’t see many private renters or buyers willing to pay those prices
That’s what happening at Horgan’s Quay, though, and it came out today that’s happening at Marquee Road too
And Blackrock Villas
The Sextant office block is quite an imposing structure judging by the photomontage in the planning docs. It makes me all the more dubious it will actually happen in the current commercial real estate climate.
http://planning.corkcity.ie/idocsWebDpss/files/214437.pdf
Not the first time JCD has taken a contrarian view. Will be interesting to see if it turns out to be yet another success.
I’d question though if City Gate could be counted as a success. There is now a huge vacancy rate in those buildings. Some large tenants there have moved elsewhere and others have reduced their floor space due to so many people WFH. Of course, it’s possible or maybe even probable that JCD no longer owns any of the developments they built, in which case I guess City Gate was a success from their perspective.
That’s my point I guess. Any fool can buy/invest. The real skill is knowing when to sell. JCD has form on this. Buy, build, sell and bank the profit. Starting a build like this right now is decidedly contrarian. Will be very interested to see how it plays out.
According to a source on skyscraper city this will not be office but will be apartments and JCD will submit a slightly revised planning permission to revert back to the original proposal soon.
That’s very interesting. It certainly makes more sense to a layman like me.
I'm glad to see anything being built, but housing in the city centre is really good news. I hope this works out.
That's excellent news. I can't see how additional office space is needed. There are plenty of decent standard office space which is currently half empty in the city centre and in the suburbs. Apartments and houses in the city is what is required. Fingers crossed this will be an apartment block, rather than more office space
The JCD and OCP city centre developments seem to be doing ok. Its the Bam ones in Horgans Quay and the event centre site that are really struggling. Hopefully there will be some good news on those over the next few months. Suburban office space is an almost impossible sell in Cork atm.
Good news to have more apts but id imagine its only going to happen because they can now get a government grant of up to €120k for every apt they build under Croi Conaithe, JCD will come out of that quite happy id say, the taxpayer not so much!
The Croi Conaithe doesn't apply to build to rent schemes so the JCD Albert Quay development wouldn't qualify for such a scheme (unless there's a forthcoming planning amendment to change that).
It's more likely the LDA would fund the project so it's used for cost rental/affordable/social housing.
Agree, although I can't see where the demand for a 15 storey office block is going to come from, unless there are some huge job announcements coming down the tracks.
Still though. As you said, JCD have a much better track record in that regard.
on the suburban office space, the trend is definitely towards relocating to the city, which is great, because we might actually get some decent public transport eventually.
I'm not sure on current occupancy levels for the newer office developments like Horgan's Quay and Navigation square but I would guess the thinking is that companies looking to come to Ireland or expand Irish operations can rent office space and hire staff cheaper and more easily in Cork than Dublin.
Fair point but there will still be a good chunk of taxpayers money propping it up either way, build costs have only gone up since JCD decided apts were not viable so someone is lining their pockets to get to get it moving again same as the Horgans Quay Apt block.
I think that's all of the major City Centre office developments covered since the mid 2000s? No movement on Anderson Quay, Union Quay (now UCC), Sullivan's Quay (planning since lapsed), Penrose Quay (west of Penrose Dock) or Kennedy Quay. The Prism seems to be given up on. Planning has likely lapsed, or nearly has, on it and Anderson Quay anyway
The source was correct!
Developers revert to original plan for apartments at Cork’s former Sextant bar site
I was reading that again thinking 200apts + parking + retail units on that site!?
Totally forgot that development is a monster, photo montage from their planning pack:
That looks fantastic
Shame the quayside itself doesn't look as good!
That’s the office design. The residential design is taller and more slender. Given The Elysian is clearly visible from Maryborough Hill despite being its mostly glass side, this will be huge
The renders of the residential building: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/docklands-albert-quay-25-fls-82m-residential-site-enabling.2152634/
I kinda like the chonk version
It's a pity that the buildings (historically) were not further back from the quayside.
Look at all the space down towards R&H hall between the buildings and the river.
I'm counting the floors there and those renders seem to be for the 15-story office development that they got approval for in 2021-2022. The previously approved apartment development that they're now reverting to is even taller.
The quay east of Albert Street will be improved under the Docklands to City Centre scheme (no idea what’s preventing that from starting) and the quay west of Albert Street will be improved as part of the Lower Lee Flood Relief Scheme
https://www.corkcity.ie/en/council-services/services/roads-and-traffic-management/sustainable-transport-schemes/projects-in-planning-design-phase/cork-docklands-to-city-centre-road-network-improvement-scheme.html#:~:text=The%20Cork%20Docklands%20to%20City,Docklands%20and%20Cork%20City%20Centre.
The original residential development was to be 25 floors, comprised of 201 apartments; with 95 one bed, 102 two bed and 4 three bed apartments.
I haven't seen anything that makes it clear whether the latest residential proposal will revert to this height, or stick with the 15 floor hight of the office application.
I am curious to know if it will be owner occupier apartments or sold to a big company (like the elysian) to be rented. I am guessing it is the latter as otherwise, they would have advertised and sold them before starting construction.
They're build to rent, not build to sell. Some conditions that were attached:
4. The development hereby permitted shall be for build to rent units which shall operate in accordance with the definition of Build-to-Rent developments as set out in the Sustainable Urban Housing: Design Standards for New Apartments, Guidelines for Planning Authorities (March 2018) and be used for long term rentals only. No portion of this development shall be used for short term lettings. Reason: In the interest of the proper planning and sustainable development of the area and in the interests of clarity.
5. Prior to the commencement of development, the owner shall submit, for the written consent of the Planning Authority, details of a proposed covenant or legal agreement which confirms that the development hereby permitted shall remain owned and operated by an institutional entity for a minimum period of not less than 15 years and where no individual residential units shall be sold separately for that period. The period of fifteen years shall be from the date of occupation of the first apartments within the scheme. Reason: In the interests of proper planning and sustainable development of the area.
6. Prior to expiration of the 15-year period referred to in the covenant, the owner shall submit for the written agreement of the Planning Authority, ownership details and management structures proposed for the continued operation of the entire development as a Build-to-Rent scheme. Any proposed amendment or deviation ABP-305779-19 Inspector’s Report Page 101 of 110 from the Build-to-Rent model as authorised in this permission shall be subject to a separate planning application. Reason: In the interests of orderly development and clarity.
7. Prior to commencement of development on site, the developer shall submit, for the written agreement of the Planning Authority, details of the management company, established to manage the operation of the development together with a detailed and comprehensive Build-to-Rent Management Plan which demonstrates clearly how the proposed Build-to-Rent scheme will operate. Reason: In the interests of orderly development and the proper planning and sustainable development of the area.
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