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Child Item

House does not need planning?

JonathanAl

Hi Folks,

Here is a link to a small modular transportable house on donedeal. https://www.donedeal.ie/houses-for-sale/house/35571834

Been in contact and the lady says no planning is needed as its small ! Just keep quiet about it she says! She actually quoted to me that 40m2 is allowed under law and hers is only 37m2. I pointed out that as far as I recalled this was for an extension to an existing dwelling only. There are also many other issues needed to comply with planning. I cannot see anything that produces sewage not requiring planning. She persists and has lied over other things,I have come to the conclusion that these are cowboys willing to say anything in order to sell. Is it possible I am in the wrong here?

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chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580570#Comment_121580570

Here's another Indo one for you to laugh at;

https://archive.ph/RNuJy

I suppose the program would never see the light of day if the planners refused the retention planning permission for the dormer window.

Risky!

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578972#Comment_121578972

I actually laughed at that slanted piece of reporting when I read it earlier. Typical Indo stuff in that they couldnt publish a balanced article. The ratio of refusals to grants (of retention permission) is pretty much the same as those that are refused/granted when applying for planning permission in the first instance.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558070#Comment_121558070

There might as well be 'no planning laws'

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/build-first-ask-later-how-thousands-are-building-without-planning-permission-and-getting-away-with-it/a2037036538.html

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565840#Comment_121565840

It doesn't indicate what the structure is made off so it's possible that it could be shipping containers but I think it's unlikely.

Putting wheels on it or calling it a caravan still doesn't exempt it from planning regulations.

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565867#Comment_121565867

I agree...the Homeless pass away silently through ill health or at their own hands.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565824#Comment_121565824

Survivorship bias is heavy here.

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558133#Comment_121558133

But if you look at the pictures that folds down to a smaller size, possibly container size

Any scope to put the base on wheels and call it a "caravan"?

gossamerfabric

The homeless are still homeless. My brother built a house using direct labour some thirty years ago which provided shelter and security. It is far from complying with current building regulations. He hasn't come down with consumption, the building is fireproof and reasonable to heat while my neighbour has his grown children in mobile homes within the curtilage of the homestead he owns. Ireland has regressed with regard to provision of shelter rather than progressed.

Those who champion the current regulations really need to revisit their position because what works in theory, certainly isn't working out well in practice.

I see I am not "on-message" so I will drop out of the discussion.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565410#Comment_121565410

Planning permission is for residential use regardless of the size. Building regulations are to protect people regardless of the size of home you want to make.

Rules and regulations are built on blood, do you want more blood?

coolbeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565647#Comment_121565647

The 25sqm is not for residences but for ancillary structures. Your premise to increase this allowance to 50sqm to provide microhomes (if I understand you) is therefore faulty.

It would also be a disaster.

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565410#Comment_121565410

On the flipside, if these exempt 25 sq. metre buildings are such Death Traps then Government should ban them with immediate effect.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565503#Comment_121565503

So what kind of changes would be part of your "radical" approach to making houses more affordable given that the existing regulations are (in your view) an expensive hindrance to those wishing to get a property?

Montage of Feck

The government have painted themselves into a planning corner that is proven to bad and in the long term damaging to society. One off houses and semi-d suburbs are just toxic planning.

gossamerfabric

I don't deserve a sneering response like that. Are you like that with everybody? Would you respond to somebody in person like that? I will ignore you henceforth.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565410#Comment_121565410

Something radical needs to be done because Government seems to have painted themselves in to a corner with regard to the regulations which are reasonable for permanent long term dewellings but extremely expensive to comply with to the letter of the law while more people than ever need a roof over their heads.

You mean we should ignore those pesky regulations that are there for the public good? Sure why do we even need fire safety rules given that the majority of houses don't go on fire?

gossamerfabric

If planning exempt threshold was increased from a paltry 25sq. m. to even 50 then it would possibly help where residential site costs are low.

The Councils would still retain an element of control in that the land still needs to be zoned residential which is within their control so micro houses wouldn't spring up on Agricultural Land on every boreen in the county.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557995#Comment_121557995

I'd be thinking they'd be most attractive as short term solution for people/ couples who need accommodation and are saving at same time for deposit on a more regular house. Piggybacking on services already in place.

They shouldn't be part of a solution to rental/ housing needs but when people are stuck, they look at all angles. Big numbers of 'hidden homeless' - adult children living at home and looking for more privacy etc.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558093#Comment_121558093

They measure 6.3 x 5.9 metres so wpuldnt be shipping containers.

Kaisr Sose

Excuse the silly question, are these old shipping containers?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557682#Comment_121557682

its a population crisis not a housing one.

Do you want to live in a country that has no planning laws, regulations or standards ? Because I sure don’t. I don’t want to be in an area where people are putting modular homes caravans and other assorted eyesores in gardens and calling them ‘homes’ ffs.

As regards the OP the hassle of power, sewage etc. just red flag all over it.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121556739#Comment_121556739

Even if you get planning permission for a home in your back garden you won't be able to use these as they don't meet building regulations for a residential property. There are log houses that meet building regulations but they cost the same as traditional materials. There is a reason why building regulations are high for residential use, safety and efficiency.

Sonic the Shaghog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121556714#Comment_121556714

Ya I get ya. I was looking at them before only thing I was thinking, you pay 30k but realistically you need a concrete foundation laid, then you need a septic tank out the back , water connection, esb connection etc. You may need a site depending on your family circumstances and then various solicitors and fees to council etc.

Wonder what you'd be looking at to have it live in ready.

Then possibly another 30k in 20 years, along with the connections again. Don't forget the disconnecting the old one and disposal. Plus the up rooting if you've kids and possessions to be moved and sorted while the new one is placed then if you've no family to crash at you've hotels etc.

I suppose you'd still have the septic tank and foundation that would be something. But say you intended to live in one forever. If at 30 you buy one, you could easily be looking at 4x 30k purchases in a lifetime.

Hard to know. What would ya reckon spitballing, much change from 160/170k over a lifetime?

Wondering now if you could get them treated for rust and that before purchase or even get in under it yourself.

CramCycle

Its basically a mobile home, nothign wrong with living in it but you need planning. Whether you get away with it or not is down to your neighbours. Our neighbour efrected one and I want to report it as its an eyesore but my name will be on the complaint and I just don't want the hassle off someone I live beside for the rest of my life.

If its not in anyone direct eyeline, and not easily seen from the road, it is worth a punt.

[Deleted User]

Buildings will be exempt from planning permission once the floor area is limited to 25 square metres.

It cannot be lived in.

hello2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557807#Comment_121557807

Agree with u on oversimplification part but I think we have linked house building to everything else like roads, schools, park , hospitals, traffic etc which are all different objectives . Ever wonder why there is no single high rise allowed on the island like Singapore or new York?

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557682#Comment_121557682

That's not a mindset, it's the reality. I am not saying I support everything that has happened but you are over simplifying the problem and solution.

You cannot equate the production of cars or food to that of housing. If you have the raw materials, you can manufacture 24/7 to meet demand. With housing you just cannot.

However, even the slickest of supply chains can grind to halt if key components are not available. Do you recall the issue in car production with the semiconductor shortage and the impact that had on new car pricing and stock? It took a long time to get production ramped up to meet demand.

In Ireland, we had a succession of problems or challenges that caused the housing shortage. Not all of them were controlable and not every country in the world had the same economic crash we had.

Building massive high rise with no supporting infrastructure, like roads, schools, open spaces would be counter productive in the long term. Having loads of second homes in peoples gardens is not sustainable either. Where do kids go to creche/ scchool when local creches/schools are already full?

Anyway, I doubt we will agree on much relating to the complexities of housing supply, and how development has to look far beyond just building housing units.

hello2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121556250#Comment_121556250

This thinking or mindset is holding back Ireland...

ever wonder why most populous countries in the world does not have the housing crisis but a tiny population of 5 million needs years to resolve housing issue????

Why there r no high rises allowed when New York is building it for over a century!!

Need some lateral thinking here !!! Housing is an artificially created problem to benefit some !!

other sectors like food production , car production is able to meet demand despite all the issues n growing population as listed above, since it's out of local govt reach !!

Bass Reeves

If as @Tow says you can buy off Ali Express or other sites for less, it would be worth the effort of sorting planning if possible. Pay back time would be very short then

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121556275#Comment_121556275

Well if you got 20 years out of it, wouldn't you be happy out? Many could be spending €18K annually on rent, so 2 years use of this and you could be breaking even.

We're going to see a lot more of these.

SuperBowserWorld

People will have to get planning permission for an erection before they have any kids the way things are going. 😁