I can see a pedestrian subway being built between Abbey Street and the OCS station, not at the beginning of course, but eventually.
A previous poster was claiming it made total logical sense to close the green line between Charlemont and OCS once the Metro opens. Based on the assumption the Metro route is the same as the cross city Luas route, which it isn't.
My point is that both lines and stations access different parts of the core city centre and both SSG stations will be busy.
I am curious about this post.
Is it important that there are 400 metres between the LUAS and metro at SSG?
Under what circumstances, under the current plan, would even a single person be interchanging at that point anyway?
Anybody travelling from the south would change at Charlemont, and anybody else would surely have interchanged well before SSG.
I can see that such a poor interchange could become relevant if - in the future, and as suggested on this page - the Green tram line were to be redirected to somewhere else in the city.
It's quite dissimilar to the situation at O'Connell Street, where the metro and the Red LUAS are clearly planned to cross each other perpendicularly, and thousands of commuters will be doing extensive walking, twice a day, to make their interchange.
So it isn’t.
Because it very often gets sucked down rabbit holes and tangents that inevitably lead it to being OT.
How is discussing the ridership of Metrolink off topic?
I'd imagine there will be need for it once shovels are in ground. This place is going to be flooded with 100s of photos of TBMs in the near future.
I often want to contribute to some of the discussions but they're often OT so no point dragging it further.
Wonder is there merit for splitting the thread like the way they do on the Weather forum for the storms, Technical discussions and General chat.
It was halted primarily because TII didn't want to be fighting court battles with Ranelagh residents which might sink the whole project. The tie in will happen, just much much delayed. It "cannibalising" the Green Line was doing what was always intended to be done with the old Harcourt line.
Your logic is fundamentally flawed.
There will be 400m between the Luas platform on SSG West and the Metro entrance on SSG East, then the additional distance down to the Metro platforms. To claim these stations are "duplicating the same journey" is seriously wrong.
As a comparison, there are only 550m between Tara and Pearse stations. Despite this, these are the 2 busiest Dart stations in Dublin after Connolly, which also has intercity and additional commuter services.
And once again, taxis clog up College Green, not the Luas.
Metro was stopped at Charlemont precisely to avoid cannibalising Luas Green line in the city centre, which wouldn't have just reduced the return on the sizeable investmemt of building Luas Cross City, but it would also have increased loading of the city centre stations of Metro... all without providing any additional catchment.
If on-street Luas services are "too slow", that's a good hint that there's too many cars/buses using the same way. Both are very cheap to divert, and in the case of buses, it will alsi help the problem of "bus-jams" as every service tries to traverse the same short stretch of road...
It makes no sense.
Again, there is little incentive to get off before OCS if coming from the Southside. That is where the majority of current traffic goes.
Similarly from the northside, it likely will be of very little benefit, particularly given the time to interchange with Metrolink at OCS.
We are looking at least 2031 before this is built and the Green Line is still growing. I would confidently say from today that we might see 1% or 2% cannibalised by Metrolink from this.
What would significantly impact it (probably 50%+) is ML extending to Sandyford. That of course is beyond this thread. There definitely was a question when ML was announced with its original route, but it isn’t now.
How would that work without also affecting the frequency of the line to Phibsboro?
It doesn’t at all though. You keep saying this but then revise it to you adding in two more stops at Harcourt and Dawson.
Regardless of service (eg, if LUAS Green is extended to Sandyford), having this line is a huge asset to the city long term. We aren’t ripping up light rail in the city and should be expanding it.
It's a side effect of there being no visible progress on the actual project. This thread repeatedly disappears up it's own arse with pointless arguments about minutiae and ridiculous ideas that will never happen because there's nothing new to talk about. I keep unsubscribing, but just when I think I'm out, it pulls me back in!
Reducing the luas frequency current green line frequency would make sense when metrolink in operation. Also college green needs minimum two lanes going onto Westmoreland Street
It's duplicating the Green Line for 4 stops. Meanwhile there are plenty of folk from Broombridge, and in future from Finglas, who will be travelling from Broombridge to Harcourt, Phibsborough to Trinity, Finglas to St. Stephens Green, who would prefer to stay on the one mode for their journey, as a transfer likely would be slower. Also should the Green Line tie in with ML at Charlemont, you likely will see the Green Line redirected.
What clogs up the city centre isn't one tram, its the dozens of taxis and private vehicles crammed onto the Luas tracks on a daily basis.
Sounds as plausible as the "fact" that was sworn to be "true" to me by several taxi drivers and barbers that the Red Line was 4'8.5" and the Green 5'3".
It's not. The Metro is duplicating the same journey. It's perfectly logical.
The Luas cross city clogs up the city center.
I love this forum when one person gets a mad idea and won't let it go despite everyone telling them it sucks. For the record (and IMHO) that has to be the worst idea I ever remember reading here.
You can’t consider something like this before finishing Bus Connects and pedestrianising College Green, not to forget the plans to restrict through traffic using the quays/Pearse etc.
Once the above changes are finished, the Luas will be significantly faster. It is also higher capacity than buses, so it would probably make more sense to limit buses driving in front of Trinity, not Luas.
Also, taxis are the issue for College Green congestion, not buses or Luas. The idea that we’d stop running Luas trams in favour of taxis is utterly absurd, ridiculous, laughable and hard to believe you could be seriously suggesting such.
The ML will be used by those that find it most convenient, or use the Luas is that makes sense.
Where I live, I can take a Dart or a bus into CC, and I often take the Dart in and the bus home because that usually suits me. I think most will find what suits them.
The ML will be a massive success once it opens.
This makes no sense.
You're saying people will switch at Charlemount for ML but are now saying that the GL is fine to be kept if an alternative route can be found.
If ML cannibalised the GL then maybe there would be an argument. But it won’t.
Metrolink from Charlemount will see new users taking it as it offers new destinations i.e. someone going to DCU or the Airport (I’m sure some people use the GL and integrate with buses more centrally for DCU but I’d say it’s a tiny number). It will likely help alleviate capacity issues to a small degree with people switching at Charlemount for OCS but I doubt it will be material.
In general it's wrong to rip up tram lines but in this specific instance, I think it's for the greater good.
You could keep the Luas until St Stephens Green maybe, so it still covers the city center. So if you're in Grafton St area, you either get the Luas at SSG or the Metro at Tara St or SSG.
The major pinch points are the Quays and by Trinity/Peace/College green.
We're going to be reliant on buses for many decades so this frees things up for the bus network.
It's definitely not bizarre. It's worth studying and considering.
If they decided to upgrade the Green to Metro and run another Luas line out of Charlemont to UCD or Rathmines for example, then it makes sense to keep it.
They don't even need to literally rip out the lines. They could keep them but just restrict the Luas between OCS and SSG and then see the benefits.
Maybe even trial just doing it at peak times to see what happens.
Anyway it's a moot point since it's a decade away but worth considering.
In a decade we could have self driving buses and most of them electric running on surplus wind energy, so it could be very cheap to have loads of buses.
At that stage we could just restrict cars from between the canals, or completely ban them in the city center.
It's completely bizarre - we've already ripped up an extensive, 30 line, street tram system in the early part of the 20th century. This was a bad mistake but making the same mistake AGAIN less than a century later would be simply insane.
On-street trams and metros are not in competition - they complement each other.
Street trams are slower but they offer more frequent stops and quicker/easier (at street level) entry/exit. Metros are faster but stop less frequently and thus make much longer distance journeys feasible.
You're making the same category error the likes of Colm McCarthy makes - when he argued that we didn't DART because we have buses. The operational characteristics of these two modes are very different so they fulfil different roles/provide different utility to public transport users.
The reason cities from Amsterdam to Zurich to Paris to Madrid are a delight from a public transport point of view is because they have BOTH metro and street-tram (as well as heavy rail and bus networks) and nobody gives a shite that some A to B trips can be made with more than one mode. Also, notably none use heavy buses to provide PT in their city cores.
Yes, currently we rely on buses to poorly fulfil a bunch of different commuting roles but this is because of a strategic error made in the early part of the 20th century when we ripped up tram tracks, mothballed heavy rail commuter lines and decided that a single solution - roads + buses - could do it all. Thankfully since the mid-1980s we've started to row back - first with DART, then with LUAS and now with Metrolink.
It's a good idea but politically difficult to have more public transport infrastructure in the wealthiest part of the city
Mod: The N11 is not between Swords and Charlemont.
Posts will be deleted and this thread closed if off topic posts continue.
Is there nothing worth posting on topic?
Seems the most sensible to divert it down the N11 so you can axe basically all buses along that corridor. Would free up a huge amount of drivers which could be distributed to the rest of the network.
If you were going to OCS then you may as well alright given the time though I suspect many won’t bother. Most people are too lazy.
There’s not going to be a Harcourt or Dawson stop. The distances are far too short.
It also makes no sense to plunge more resources into two stations that won’t add to the network.
Ultimately I think the Green Line southside will extend to UCD.
Maybe just sever the part between St Stephens Green to OCS.
