If you want to get into personal accounting practices then maybe a personal finance forum is more apt as the argument seems to be academic, this thread is very much about whether it ever makes financial sense to spend money upfront to save money on running costs.
What part are you disagreeing with?
Again if you have a perfectly fine debt free car that you are happy to hang onto, it wouldn’t make financial sense to take out a loan, to buy an EV to save money on fuel, as that saving would be wiped out by the loan repayments.
That is fairly basic.
How is that even a question for anyone beyond the junior cert.
Don't bother as there's nothing to debate. You may as well debate whether a car purchase acquisition cost is a capital or current expenditure.
😂 unfortunately to continue this conversation further I think a new thread would be required based off prior direction @liamog am I right in saying that?
I would love to have this conversation with you but I think a new thread would have to be started to debate this, going off previous direction.
An economist, an accountant and a fintech specialist say so in the last few posts. But of course @tom1ie is telling them all they are wrong 😂
Is this the old chestnut of cash flow vs expenses? You can't equate the monthly payment on an EV car as the same as the fuel costs + monthly repayment on a ICE car. You have cost (+Opportunity cost perhaps) of the loan, and then need to add in depreciation. Not the full loan amount each month.
Not really 😂🤦♂️👍
Sorry but that’s a nonsense post, why do you need to have free power and never charge publicly then you go and do the same thing yourself by referencing people house sharing .
Any getting a large power user like an ev is going to look into the most appropriate rate not use the average standard rate, that would just be foolish.
i have no solar and have a day night meter, day at 35c and night at 14c , that’s available to anyone that wants it, current prices.
there are plenty of people that an ev won’t suit currently but there are plenty more that it does but they get scared out of it with misinformation. If my 70 year old mother can manage I’m sure the rest of you can figure it out !
Re the original question.
Was well aware of my potential ICE car options before i bought my 2nd hand Ioniq 28 in 2021.
Had been driving two old diesels previously.
Considered various ICE car options at various times in the 10 years pre buying the EV.
When I made the decision to buy I knew I wanted (not needed) a new to me car and that I wanted it to be electric.
Because I enjoyed the EV test drives I'd had pre Covid.
My impression from the Leaf 40 test drive (in 2019) was pretty much that if it wasn't for rapidgate* I'd have pretty much bought the one with the light coloured interior in showroom there and then.
From a purely financial viewpoint - I'd be better off buying stuff like Mondeos for 7000 euro or so at the time.
And yes I did consider buying a Mk 4 Mondeo as that would be less money out of my bank account on day 1 of ownership. But those were mostly DIESELS - so no.....
But from an ownership enjoyment viewpoint it's been worth every penny.
Which is good because I paid 22.5 k cash for it.
Drove the diesel crossover my brother owns - yesterday.
And the thing pretty much irritated me.
No regen braking is a dealbreaker - because regen braking that works well makes for a nicer drive.
The question of whether it's worth changing to an EV from an older is a very individual question.
Because it depends on the persons priorities.
The EV savings you hear about are easiest to justify if you actually need or want a fairly new car anyway.
If you run a 2007 Corolla that's going well and the EV you want is 30 grand then the reality is that 30 grand would last you a long time putting fuel in the Corolla and keeping it on the road.
Hence why its an individual decision.
*I thought rapidgate was an indicator of a car whose battery might not have the best durability in long term. Thought an actively cooled battery was the obvious choice for reliability.
Ask any other economist and they will tell you what I told you 😉
Nah I’ve taken on board your points but your wrong.
Anyway it’s been done to death I thought you’d turned over a new leaf (pun intended 😂).
The cost of finance. Not loan repayments 😉 But I've explained that to you many times and as many times you have refused to believe me.
“even though the same people often comment on where is best to charge on long journey's)”
I don’t use public chargers. Last time I paid for a charge was when I was delivering my i3 to its new owner in 2020 so they had a full charge on collection. I haven’t a penny in credit on my easygo account and still have the €20 minimum on my eCars account just incase. Don’t have an ionity, cirkle k or any other apps.
Ive actually never fast charged my current car, so it could have a faulty ccs and I wouldn’t even know it!
But, I’ll still advise people on the best public chargers or charging rates because I keep up with the industry. It’s nice to advise people that have t don’t those trips before or are nervous on their first “long” trip.
The summary of the original question is yes - it makes sense to move from ordinary car to ev - but it seems only if you have free or almost free availability of electricity and obviously never charge publicly (even though the same people often comment on where is best to charge on long journey's).
People seem to lack the ability to think about anybody's else circumstances on these treads - i.e. those sharing a house who can't force others to get night rate, or those 30% of the population in rented house, or the 10% in apartments or houses without driveways - all of whom charging at home is often impossible.
Bravo for you if you own your own power plant, but wouldn't it be interesting if somebody used the National Energy Price Index to compare costs - i.e. 47 cent per unit and see how the diesel versus ev comparison would work? I'm guessing the ev fuel saving disappears?
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-households-paying-almost-1000-more-for-electricity-than-eu-average/a575360375.html
Now I do believe you have changed your tune and finally seen sense!
Congrats!
100%.
Look at a 2014 Leaf compared to a 2024 Atto 3 for example.
That's a tough ask in any motoring domain, let alone a fast changing one like EVs.
EVs in 2024 and 2034 may be like chalk & cheese potentially.
We were seriously considering an EV last year, most of the driving will be local traffic. We have two cars, one diesel and one petrol. The petrol is the local commute and our old diesel estate has been a fantastic economical workhorse, especially when we were driving back and forth to England a lot.
Both cars are now into the "what the fook is wrong today" zone so we finally considered a swap out and the thing that put us off EVs is that not many really appeal to us. I actually sat into a BYD seagull a few weeks ago and thought perfect local commuter, great tech for the price, but what else will be arriving in the coming years?
In the end we're swapping out the 2ltr petrol for a one ltr petrol for all the local commuting, but when it comes to swapping out the diesel it will be for an EV. But we don't want to simply get the latest thing, we want something we'd be happy to live with for a decade.
Bought car with savings, money was sitting in the bank, not used. At the time, there were no longer any savings accounts that paid more than a few tens of a percent interest, so negligible. Like you say, there was no inflation to speak of at the time. These days in that situation, the opportunity costs would be negative because of inflation!
Of course had I bought the car on PCP / with a loan, the cost of finance should have been taken into account in total cost of ownership calculation
Pity you don't seem to be a CMod anymore (?)
I know back in the day you could have muppetchecked him to see who he really is. I've been here since 2007 (I think) under prior handles, all of which are not banned or anything. It's pretty easy to see who's who anyway, even with his new handle I'm pretty sure I recognise the posting style.
Interesting costings. the only part I disagree with is the zero listed for opportunity cost/funding cost on the EV. There is a higher initial cost, and that has a cost associated. Even if you're lucky enough to buy with savings, the cost associated with tying up 25k of cash in a non appreciating asset(especially as that was an era of near zero yearly inflation) are not zero.
Sorry I don't fully understand your proposed equation above so I can't answer that.
My fuel cost is about 200 for the year, we do about 28,000km a year.
The purchase cost of my id3 was 36k.
The range after 3 years(now) is 93%, if it continues on that trajectory (although reading these forums it tends to taper off) after 10 years it might have lost 20-25% range, bringing it down to under 300km
Short term prediction. They will ignore your post.
Long term prediction. They don’t bring it ok again!
Higher Mods should be able to check through the IP cross checking I would have thought?
I've heard a lot of things said about me, but gullible is a first 😂 I'm rather the opposite, it's quite hard to extract money from me even at the best of times 😂
Go on, show me some of my long term predictions where I was completely wrong? And while we're at it, would you care to share what previous boards handles you have had? Unlike yourself, I do not hide. I have had the same one for over 22 years.
Yep appears to be a knowledgeable fella across areas such as solar, ev, crypto and motors from what I read on here and appears to have things nicely set up.
Agree
A bit gullible but in general he has good info/ideas and he's good at reading the market short term, long term he's been wrong more than right though.
He's worth stalking, he's a gold mine of information. Even if you disagree with it.
