N40 - Cork South Ring Road upgrade [early planning underway]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557070#Comment_121557070

The lack of lights between the tunnel and Douglas has always confused me given it is the most urban part of the road. Bloomfield is especially dark

AugustusMinimus

I still don’t understand why they went to the effort to physically remove the lampposts. What a ridiculous waste of time and money.

TheSunIsShining

Yes. Very dark - assume the lack of lights is becauses it's a protected area or something as it's right in the middle of the estuary.

And lighting issues seem particularly exaggerated as the lighting in the tunnel seems to be very badly set up in general. It often tends to be darker in the tunnel than during daylight and when you emerge then you are dazzled for a second or two. Given that it must be the most "closed for maintenance" road tunnel in Western Europe, you'd think someone could sort it out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557124#Comment_121557124

Plus when you come out the northside of the tunnel you're faced with multiple gantry signs all saying different things

cantalach

It’s a lot of recyclable metal.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557126#Comment_121557126

I was thinking it could be something to do with the harbour SPA and birds nesting alright.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557124#Comment_121557124

I'd presume they were removed to be reused elsewhere.

spacetweek

Silly and dodgy comment from idi na khuy removed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121851403#Comment_121851403

As I mentioned before, due to the introduction of bus gates on Douglas Road, Bus Connects states that individuals driving from Douglas to the city centre should use the N40 and N27 instead, which goes against the idea of the N40 not being for local traffic. Since the publication of the Bus Connects consultations, TII/the City Council have been updating road signage across the city. I noticed the other day that the South Ring signs at the junction of Grange Road and Donnybrook Hill have been replaced with signs for City Centre. However, instead of telling drivers to use the R851 South Douglas Road, it states they should use the N40 and N27

Is there an actual desire in TII to remove local traffic off the N40, or is that just something us on here are advocating for?

cantalach

I don’t know that it’s true to say that “us on here” generally are advocating for removal of local traffic from the N40. I’m not anyway. Our starting point for fixing the N40 should not be to look at whatever was originally envisaged for it over a quarter century ago. Our starting point needs to be a recognition of what the N40 has become. Almost more so than being a bypass, it is a major arterial route for moving around within the wider south side of the city. It is difficult to see how any kind of outer distributor could be built with sufficient capacity in a corridor that would enable it to accommodate all those trips. The opposition to BusConnect demonstrates how difficult it would be to widen and/or realign roads in suburban Cork.

Perhaps a limited distributor has a role to play, but I think that the key to fixing the current N40 is to build the North Ring.

KrisW1001

The opposition to BusConnects is not about realigning roads.

Capacity of N40 needs to increase, but that doesn't mean more road lanes. Right now, the road is swamped with single-occupant passenger cars, the least efficient way to use the space. That will have to change somehow.

While on the topic of road signage. It seems to be standard practise in the last ten+ years across the country to just use the title "Airport" or a symbol of an airplane for identifying airports, rather than saying the airport's actual name. However, over the last 2/3 months, all new road signage on/around the N27 specifically names the airport (i.e. Cork Airport), and in the last few weeks, signage at Kinsale Road Roundabout and on Airport Road that just said Airport has been removed and replaced with signs saying Cork Airport. I wonder why they're going to this effort? And if they will replace the N40 mainline gantry signs too to say Cork Airport?

I completely get them replacing old N25 signage with N40, and replacing previous county controlled area signage that said Cork with City Centre. It just seems weird to go to all the effort to add the word Cork before Airport, as if it isn't already obvious what airport is being referred to? I even saw they replaced the N27 directional sign at the Tramore Valley Park end of Mick Barry Road. Before, it said "CORCAIGH City Centre", and now it says "AN LÁR City Centre". A whole new sign just to replace the Irish? I'm not complaining, I just wonder what the justificaiton is

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121852684#Comment_121852684

Absolutely. But even with Cork Luas, Cork Dart and Busconnects, there will still not be public transport for a huge number of people coming in from the East, North and South. All of those trips require the N40 because there is no alternative to it.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121853112#Comment_121853112

It's no different in Dublin. The LUAS only serves part of the city. DART even less. For the rest it's unreliable bus services, multiple changes or just drive.

Add to that a property and rental crisis (just as in Cork) and you have more people needing to get to the city from further away adding to congestion.

What SHOULD happen though (in Cork, Dublin and elsewhere) is replicating the Black Ash P&R setup. I'm in Cork regularly and use it most times I've to go into town - for €5 per car with a 10/15 minute bus service in/out and no time limit it's a bargain and a lot quicker/cheaper than parking further in. It's a bit ridiculous that it doesn't run on Sundays though (outside of the Christmas peak).

I would have the same setup at every major junction on the M50 for example (somewhat like the N7/Red Cow LUAS P&R but cheaper and quicker to implement as nothing really needed except some extra buses, parking space, and access) - and I say this as someone who in general is not a fan of public transport (having spent too many years of my life standing around waiting for buses that were late, left early or just never showed when I was younger in Dublin).

A similar setup at Douglas, the tunnel interchange and so on would probably make a huge difference.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908044#Comment_121908044

Is Douglas not already very close to Black Ash? And not sure whether the land to hold a few hundred cars for a P&R would be available in Douglas? The Cork bus connects talks about a P&R strategy and lists the desirable locations.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121557126#Comment_121557126

It's supposed to bring you from brighter to duller and then back out to brighter again to avoid dazzling lighting in the tunnel itself. That's the logic of it anyway.

Frequency of maintenance is also likely down to the weather here. It's extremely frequently wet so there's quite a lot of muddy tyres dragging gunk in. The maintenance is basically just washing surfaces.

€600k allocation for N40 TEN-T route improvements. Have there been concrete and specific proposals made that this money is going towards?

I've heard nothing at all. This one may require emails to find out.

I had looked a while back because this was also mentioned last November in the transport sector National Development Plan as a project to be “advanced for future construction” (without further elaboration), but couldn’t find anything. A mystery project then.

EnzoScifo

one upon a time there was a desire to upgrade the N40 to the M40. Although upgrade in that context is probably just the signage!

marno21

It seems to be a broad project to assess the N40 as is and investigate any potential interventions to make it work more efficiently, especially in light of the M28 and Dunkettle upgrades

It’s easy to forget sometimes that it has grown from a low grade suburban distributor road into the role it plays today. For example, when the Kinsale Road to Rochestown sections were built 35 years ago they weren’t built with the intention of being fed by free flow motorway grade roads from either side

I wonder what interventions could even be done realistically speaking, short of closing junctions. Maybe widening the flyover with a third (centre) lane that can switch directions based on the time of day. This would require a much lower speed limit though.

Also, add an active travel route along the length of the N40.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124245240#Comment_124245240

Perhaps they are thinking of something to do with the Douglas flyover, and maybe making it an M road. Even if the flyover were widened westbound by one lane.

I've long highlighted the apocalyptic jams we're going to get westbound when the M28 opens.

kub

If there is one thing currently that needs to be addressed on the N40 is the tail backs caused by the old Kinsale Road, as in that section that goes from the Kinsale Road Roundabout in towards Turners Cross.

What used to be a pre Christmas issue has now become a year round one whereby traffic gets backed up on that road and it backs up onto the roundabout causing issues there, which then affects all approaches to the roundabout.

Could the road by the P&R be used as an alternative route and perhaps have that road only going one way, towards the roundabout?

jimbob955

What active travel measures would you implement along the N40?

I guess you could connect Mahon Point to Douglas via Blackrock greenway and a new corridor along the Rochestown road.

You could connect Douglas back to the Vernon Mount bridge and from there onwards to the Viaduct/n71 road and a spur to the Bandon Road roundabout.

You could connect the Tramore Valley Park to the Togher Greenway via a new bridge and then onwards to Bandon Road - Curraheen and MTU greenway

I dunno how much of an impact these AT schemes would have on overall traffic, but a lot of the network is there already, they just need to connect some missing pieces. Maybe in 20 years time…….

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124246405#Comment_124246405

This is more my personal desire to have a way to travel the N40 corridor without driving. It wouldn’t solve the worst of the capacity problems which are related to the tunnel and Douglas flyovers. But if they are putting serious work in to enhance the N40 they should introduce an active travel option.

At the very very least, safe routes to travel between Douglas and the Sarsfield Roundabout, and ideally a much improved Well Road for cyclists to travel on to Mahon (or a trail along the edge of the Estuary). There’s plenty of room alongside the road from Douglas to the Kinsale Road Roundabout, and enhancement of the existing trail by the Tramore River (extending it to the Sarsfield Roundabout as well) would be a game changer. This would also permit banning cycles from that section of the N40, supporting a TEN-T application.

hans aus dtschl

Stop talking sense, the two of you…

jimbob955

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124246814#Comment_124246814

Talking sense indeed! Some wonderful ideas here.

@hans aus dtschl the last 18 months I have been emailing councillors, TDs, those in charge of certain projects. Its always the same. "They will look into iy", "raise it with the council", or "there is no update", "no funding to progress". It is like banging ur head against a wall. There seems to be no drive or funding or ambition at all. I look at the success of the Marina and if a few smaller versions were rolled out across the city, to actually connect places, it would be amazing.

I also look at the Cork-Kinsale proposed greenway.

I honestly think they should connect a place like Douglas to Togher first (the room is there, offline, no cranky farmers, landowners being effected) or Glanmire to city. Huge populations, schools emplyment etc. It would be a much better use of money. Rather than building a masssive greenway down to Kinsale where the local population is so sparse.

I would absolutelty be in favour of a proper connection of the southern neighbourhoods on or south of the N40. Douglas, Togher, Bishopstown, Wilton and Mahon, while all close on a map, are not easy to get between without a car/going through the city centre