Looks like you have your very own stalker.😀
You have amazing insight into my posting history. For a user who only signed up to boards a few days ago. Although it seems you have misunderstood my postings on EVs over the last 8-9 years or so.
Bit of apples to oranges though?
That 25k car could only drive for 80 mins on the motorway, while the other car was a V8 or something?
Do you still have that robotaxi car that was supposed to be earning you a salary by now nearly 2024, might as well own a horse if you own an ICE I think you said once.
Do you still believe in that FSD/Robotaxi stuff or seen sense?
And for the unbelievers, a simplified total cost of ownership calc. €1967 = depreciation of the car over the 3 years I owned it. Bought for €25400 brand new on the road price, sold for €19500 privately
I bought a brand new EV 7 years ago and scrapped my worthless petrol banger. The total cost of ownership of the brand new EV was far lower than the zero depreciation banger. And my mileage is only a touch above average, so it wasn't just fuel savings although I did spend about €50 per week on petrol. In the EV the first year cost me about €30 in electricity. For the year. Tax also went down from €1500 to €120. Insurance went down. And zero maintenance even though I did all the maintenance on the petrol banger myself. 75% discount on tolls helped a few hundred quid a year too.
It was a nice petrol banger though, a 3l Jag S-type 😁 Everytime I put my foot down cost me €1 in petrol. I like putting my foot down, many times 😁 In the EV it costs a cent. And back 7 years ago it was free. Free unlimited charging for all EVs in Ireland. Seems like a lifetime ago now...
It’s an R-Line Tiguan to be clear (DSG & Leather, one owner). No finance on either, paying cash to trade up.
Dealer have them listed 38-40k although one dealer dropped his R-line to 33.6k. Unless VW giving them good margin on the ID4, I don’t see much on it for them. Probably 3k. We paid €44k for the Tiguan in 2019.
Seems expensive alright. Looks like 33k was given for the Tiguan. You'd be pushing into the likes of A6 and 5 series for that money at 5 years old next year. Which are much more expensive cars.
It may be a case of kicking the can down the road, massive push on moving ID4s from stock from VW head office so might be a problem the dealer is happy to try solve in 2024.
Cashing in rebates might cover this rather than trying to make money on any given deal.
That poster did well in my opinion
How much are you repaying PM currently on the Tiguan?
How much will you be repaying on the ID4 PM?
Can someone do the dealer maths for me on this one? A new Tiguan costs either 42k or 50k. But it looks to me that the dealer will need to sell this 5 year old Tiguan for north of 30k to break even?
I would say it makes sense for us (trading up from a 192 Tiguan 87000kms to a new ID4 Life DX for €9500). Its cost positive over 5yrs (€1200/year savings on fuel plus residual values will be a lot higher on a 5yr old ID4 vs a 10yr old Tiguan with double the mileage. Wall charger cost (€600 after grant) offset by lower annual motor tax.
Thats the only reason we are changing!
Nissan has a more interesting drivetrain. Even if it's not that effective.
More power, mpg, mpge, no serpentine belt and ancillaries in the Toyota, heat pump in the Toyota, ecvt rather than a automatic doing something it was never designed for, and sufficiently bulletproof for New York cabbies!
I forgot it's some alternative reality, seriously what are you basing that on?
I forgot this is boards…
😆
On what basis is the Toyota drive train light years ahead?
I think the Toyota PHEV drivetrain is light years ahead of the bmw one though from an engineering stand point. certainly the real life range of the rav is enough for most commutes (c 40 miles of mixed rural urban and motorway driving)
On topic though I agree that buying a new car to save money is oxymoronic. I do think buying an ev was an unwise choice for a lot of people, it was a choice pushed too far to fast, and I think it will ultimately hinder ev uptake.
We had a 530e and although we liked the car, it was running on petrol a lot though unless I plugged in twice a day.
A realistic 70km to 100km everyday range and I'd begin to consider one again if I really fancied the car. But I'd still be plugging in every day which is a bit of a pain. And I'd have an ICE engine and gearbox to maintain which would probably push me to make the decision to stay away from them.
I like the flexibility of phev if I was doing more long distance on a regular basis. But I'd want one with a large battery.
But very few used ones, or at least I felt they were over priced. So you'd have to buy new, I also thought they were over priced also. No economy savings if it's overpriced to buy in the first place.
PHEVs are the best option for the present, not future, not past.
i traded a RAV4 PHEV for a new GR sport model of the same. Very modest deprecation, we rarely fill it with petrol, have the low rate for Energia for the commute, and can drive the length of the country without worrying about poxy charging.
i have had a lot of cars. The RAV PHEV is the closest I have come across to the “perfect” vehicle.
That's good to see and if I was to go shopping for an EV is good to know that the govt. is willing to knock a few quid off. Still not tempted though 🙂
"...Did it ever make sense to move from an old combustion car to a new EV..."
The problem with this statement is it also applies to ICE cars.
"...Does it ever make sense to move from an old Combustion car to a new Combustion car...."
It's the same arguments. Which is why the bangernomics thread exists.
Just running my own numbers here to see if it makes sense or not. I'll try to be unbiased and compare my old ICE which I loved to my current EV. Both financially and non financially. While I'm waiting for me dinner!
I bought a 2014 Audi a6 in 2018, selling it privately in 2022 for 17.5k to fund a cupra born. It was just fully paid off but was starting to give me hassle. Not much, but the potential is always there.
The born was 42k so 25k cash on top of the deposit for the Audi. It's now worth about 25k if I was to sell it. It was bought up front and I estimate will be worth 15k in 3 years (18 more months) which is about as long as I'd keep anything as I have a wandering eye.
The Audi was using a tank of fuel at about 120 euro a tank every 2 weeks. It was 280 to tax. I'd put an estimated figure of 1000 a year to service and repair. So that's about 4300 a year to run the Audi assuming nothing big went wrong.
The Born costs about 900 a year in electricity based on my usage which is a saving of about 2000 a year. Tax is 120 and servicing should be zero. I'm assuming tyres and insurance costs the same as the Audi.
So running costs are 1000 compared to 4300 or saving of 3.3k a year or 10k over 3 years until paid off
I reckon the Audi would have halved in value in 3 more years or 9k.
So, TCO for the born over 3 years will be
27k depreciation
3k electricity and tax
TCO keeping the Audi
9k depreciation
13k diesel, tax, repairs and maintenance
So I'm guessing 30k cost over 3 years for the born v 22k for the Audi (man maths I know)
Add finance costs if needed, I didn't have any.
Now, for some non financial aspects
Pros for the Born
Have newer car with more tech and features. Probably safer but I'm not sure. Is a car I'd be happy to keep after 3 more years. It will be the missus long term car which we couldn't do with an 11 year old Audi with 200k kms in 2025. Better to drive, in my opinion, in a sporty drive kind of way. Smaller boot but the hatchback is way better than a saloon so much that I'd always look for hatch again.
Pros for the Audi
Was a much more impressive car in both exterior and exterior. More comfortable seats. Had the range to do whatever wanted on motorway without stops. Probably felt better at 120kmph+ on the motorway, I regularly drive it at 130/140 which I know is illegal but I wouldn't do this in the born for both range reasons and it's just not a high speed cruiser like the Audi was.
Now, I know I overpaid for the cupra as prices are about 5k less now and 0% finance is available. At those prices and keeping 15k residuals after 3 years, the born would close the gap on cost between keeping older ICE or moving to EV.
Now, I have to somehow justify buying a used Etron GT, I can't see the financials working well for me even with my man maths but sometimes it doesn't have to make sense!
The VRT on a RWD Model 3 is €1,349 and the EV grant is €3,500 so the tax isn't as big an issue as many may believe.
Obviously, like any new private car, there is also VAT - but that's not lost money. A portion of the value a car will retain is down to the VAT someone would have to pay if they bought new.
Ya Happy Christmas have a nice one
Yeah, it's holding up very well. That's only 1 example too. I sold my now 12 year old Leaf to my FIL last year with with 100k+ and battery is 65-70%. I needed a longer range vehicle for a new job. Same story on their other 9.5 year old Leaf with 70% or more. They all did 80km return journey last night going to a family Xmas party.
There are some examples of older Leafs with higher degradation than what I have personal experience of. The ones with such degradation are generally the ones which regularly used the rapid chargers and are by and large the early 2013 and older batteries, which were a crappy chemistry. If home charging was done 99% of the time, these cars are still very useable for anyone not needing to commute long distances.
My main driver is a 222 Model 3 and I would expect the LFP batteries to outlast the car by a long way.
Anyway, Happy Christmas folks.
I've answered them, the 4 pot is plenty refined for me.
Why does a minor tip lead to evs being written off?
In my experience over the last 5 years ev insurance on quite powerful cars 330-400 bhp has been incredibly low, I.e. Under 400 euro annually and I'm not the only one.
Aggression? I asked you a few questions to try and figure out where you are coming from.
Fairplay that's good news alright, I have a diesel Bora parked up in garage, drove it for 18.5 yrs with no issues bar belt replacements, tyres and other consumables. The only reason I parked it up is that I wanted a change.
A simply unbeakable car and finger crossed the Octy will last well beyond 10yrs. BTW sold 2012 Octy to a friend and is going great not a bother.
I have a 10 year old Leaf (7 in my ownership). Battery health is at about 70% with over 100k on the clock. It's an old, outdated battery, but I'd say that's pretty reliable. The car has had tyres replaced a couple of times. Pollen filter once. Wiper blades twice. Brake fluid flush once. Original pads still on it. I'm not worried about the battery clapping out. I'd bet the battery will outlast the octy.
Individual cells and pouches can be replaced now. Its not game over when there is a battery issue. Entire battery pack replacement is rare. Battery range upgrades is also possible.
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