I'd be thinking more long term with land purchase Vs rent. Have buy to let's also and they can be a pain. Houses at 100k will be the first to be empty when the recession comes. Land costing about 10 - 12k per acre around here. Houses costing 250k for anything decent and they are rent capped mostly. Way more security and flexibility in land and less risk. You couldn't rent an acre in my locality and even if you wanted to you couldn't be expanding depending on land availability.
Your comparison on systems is very flawed, because your equating output in litres with net profit/free cash.
For a spring calving herd to generate the same net profit/hectare, it doesn't need to send the same amount of litres as you. Therefore the 1.7 million figure with the greatest of respect is nonsense
All the data? Plenty of individual cow records but no co-op report.
How many litres and kg solids were delivered per cow in 2022? A snap of the co-op report would do it.
It might not be that much higher than some of those cursed spring herds??
Why 700kg? Is that your target or a reality? What does the co-op report say?
My calculations are not flawed- results from the profit monitors show that the best 10% of farmers in each system low medium and high input all make the same profit per litre regardless of % of milk composition- what this does show and teagasc don’t want people to realise is that more volume sold generates more profit
the 1.7 million extra capital required to milk 264 medium output vs 160 high output is real I’m afraid
i was lucky to study economics in college
How many litres and solids per cow did you deliver in 2022? To underpin these calculations? Co-op report figures?
It hasn’t happened over night
706 in 2017 has been my best
634 one of our worst years in recent time- drought really hit us hard
4.34 fat
3.67 protein
7688 litres
You posted 2013?
What about posting 2022? Thanks
I’ve already posted it previously have a look thru my previous posts- why do you not want to believe me
All your doing is a partial analysis, while assuming chasing yield/cow won't lead to a huge increase in costs and complication in a farming system. Diet feeders, increased imported feed, poorer fertility all lead to increased costs. Higher output will cover some of the costs. You can work a lot harder for the same profit at the end of the year.
I do a profit monitor every year, and look at the national figures I haven't seen where data is presented to get to your theory that margin/litre doesn't change between systems. Put up a link to that if you have it. I would be interested to see it
The reason why the 1.7 million is nonsense is, to compare farming systems you must look at the profit they can generate on a per hectare basis. And on that basis there is no evidence your farming system is any more profitable
Post it again if you have time please. 2022 co-op report.
It would be illuminating for the discussion at hand.
I think he just comes on here when he wants to sell some of his "magic cows" to unsuspecting buyers.
Besides what anyone else says you’ve still got outstanding figures and great cows. You know your cows inside out like any of my friends with pedigree herds they could tell you the background of everyone of them in the parlour.
Its something to take great pride in yourself and your brother carrying on what your father started and improving it.
Hope you and your family are having a great Christmas its special to have a family farm with multiple brothers involved and stock you can be proud of.
Couldn’t agree with you more!
I think thats uncharitable straight. Stan is after posting coop reports and some of his individual cow data.
They are obviously a fantastic herd but Im not sure the system would be for me. I like the few weeks down time but thats possibly because I work part time off farm two and a bit days a week and that in terms of output would be the same as an extra 60+ cows a year. Each farmer develops a system to suit themselves.
Ask your teagasc advisor for a copy of the analysis of co op reports for the past 5 years- they will give it to you
i think it equates to 15cpl profit over the last 5 years on a rolling avg regardless of whether your in a high medium or low input system- as my advisor says the ebi of the farmer is more important than the ebi of the herd
so back to point in hand re 160 vs 264 cows
both systems at 15cpl return the same overall farm profit
but the high input system has higher profit per ha than the lower
1320000 litres at 15cpl is 198000 profit
on the high imput this is a profit of 2571 per ha
on the spring calving system doing 5000 litres sold it’s only 1800 profit per ha or 30% margin less per hectare
a key thing from the profit monitor is that a herd feeding 1.8 ton of meal has only a 1-2 cpl higher feed cost than a herd feeding 750lg meal yet his fixed costs will be 5-8cpl lower due to dilution- you should have this conversation with your advisor as you seem to just dismiss whatever I say
Yep, each to their own. Sure if everyone was the same it would be a very boring world. We all have different motives for doing or not doing what we do and leave everyone else off to do whatever they feel like.
I'm around long enough to take figures with a large spoon of salt.
Co-op report from 10 years ago but not from last year? Pity. You'd like to see the progress made
Maybe, but the one from 10 yrs ago is impressive enough
A lot can change in 10 years. It would be better to look at the most recent one, given all the claims made. Surely if the figures had moved on we would be seeing them?
I'm wondering, I have to say.
Well even if his kgms have slipped his fertilizer usage is dramatically down and this is a herd well established so it’s bound to plateau production wise at some point.
Weve always had autumn calvers alongside the spring calvers here and it’s something I’d think about phasing out when I’m at home full time more down to a lifestyle point of view than down to the margin.
Id love to be at @stanflt level but currently we wouldn’t have the land base for two brothers and my parents to be all looked after and my brother wouldn’t be into milking but gifted with everything mechanically and could drive any machine for you.
Agree the farmer is the most important factor in any system.
I have seen the breakdown of the epm and the figures of the top 10%,. The important figure is the €2571, which is been achieved by spring calving herds which voids your arguement that output alone drives profit.
to be honest i thought you were talking about a lot higher profit ha. With high milk prices averaging 2500/ ha profit is nothing special on a spring calving herd the last few years. The pm has other issues around not fully capturing the economic cost of producing milk but its a useful comparison between farms
Also final point Dilution alone won't give a high input farm anywhere close to an 8 cent cost saving on fixed cost.
Anyway happy Christmas, an enjoyable discussion
Stanflt. Just wondering about the figure of 100,000 for land rental. Lets say it's 250 per acre, that's 400 acres. What is all that used for, are ye growing cash crops as well.
That 2571 was from the high imput farms- the spring calving herds only avg 1800 on a 5 year avg- this report wouldn’t have included 22 or 23 when milk prices were high
Wait till January and I’ll show you the one from 23- production up and solid % up- talking to everyone areound me and they are back 12-20 on previous year
320 is probably the avg rent
currently have 50 cull cows fattening along with the Angus cattle
bought 25 cull cows in November for 5000
I was ready to sell the 25 that I had but ended up buying 25 cause they were only making 200€
weight the group before Christmas and mine averaged 740kg while the ones I bought weighted 650
at current prices they’ll be worth 1500 hung- there’s more ways than milking to make money and one must exploit the opportunity when it arises
Up from what level in 2022? Please post for the sake of clarity in the discussion. The claim is volume drives everything so let's see how it should look. 2022 is as valid a year as any. Thank you.
If you cut out the land for the beef stock and cull cows you’d be making massive money per ha with just what land the dairy side needed
Can’t see how you’d make money at beef on rented land costing 350€ /ha
