The Strategic Rail Review will consider how the rail network on the island can improve sustainable connectivity between major cities, enhance regional accessibility including to the North West and support balanced regional development.
Justification is we have little other options - the trains will need replaced before the line is electrified.
I don't think battery only trains could meet schedule when charging is accounted for, and hydrogen trains are not fully mature technology nor do we have fueling infrastructure for those either.
There will be diesel trains running in this country on some lines for the next 50 years
Hard to see the justification for buying new Diesel trains in the current world.
New diesels can be bought for cork-dublin and then when the line is eventually electrified, new electrics on Cork-dublin and the newer diesels used to replace aging diesels on other lines.
According to IE, mainline rail electrification will not be DC. 25kV AC is the most likely system.
DC is the more efficient system if you're operating a lot of services in a small area, but over longer distances, resistive losses become a problem with DC systems, so you need more substations. Even if AC is less efficient within the train, the lower transmission losses of AC power more than make up for this.
Trains that can run on both AC and DC are commonplace; less common is dual-system electrification, with both AC and DC overhead.
The 201 series locomotives have an operating life of 30 years, but can be extended to 40. The newest ones are now 28 years old. The carriages used on Cork Dublin are still good for another 20 years. So at some point in the next 10 years this service will need new trains, or it will suffer poorer reliability... those new trains/locomotives should not be diesel powered if we have any intention of meeting our transport co2 emissions targets.
Well we've only had this change of policy for 2 years now. I think by 2025 there'll be really major construction work in Dublin on the transport projects, the guts of €15bn is to spent in Dublin alone on the 4 major public transport projects. That's about the same spend we had on the national motorway network. You're talking another 4 billion on Cork projects starting around 2026. I doubt that Dub-Cork will be electric by 2033 but i would say it'll certainly be at an advanced stage as a project. Dublin will likely have some new projects on the books by then also.
There's nothing yet to suggest that. There hasn't been a transport project of any significance under construction in Ireland since Luas cross city opened in 2017. I'll happily say I was wrong if I'm on an electric train all the way from Cork to Dublin in 2033.
They'd need planning and more importantly the very frequent substations that 1500V DC needs also need it. I just don't trust Irish Rail to not decide to do the entire route as 1500V DC.
But that was only the case up to 2 years ago when the majority of transport capital was spent on roads, that's been flipped on its head so (pending a serious reform of ABP) you're likely to see PT investment at a pace similar to road building in previous years.
Do the gantries and wires etc. for electrification need planning permission or are they exempt?
Yes, early planning may start in about 8 or 9 years, but it'd be a good few years after that before we see construction start. Consider the program of work that the NTA/TII have to get through: Metrolink, Dart+ projects, BusConnects, Luas Green Line Capacity project (again), smaller projects like Limerick-Foynes, M20 motorway project. Those are all on the books right now, at various stages, and require significant admin work to carry out. I'd also hazard a guess that once Metrolink gets under way, they'll launch a project to sort out the south side section of Metrolink.
All of these are sucking up the capacity at NTA/TII, and will for the foreseeable. I'd say once Metrolink is properly underway, along with at least two of the DART+ projects, that they'll start planning a Cork-Dublin Electrification project. As to the fact that the diesels are coming to end of life, Irish Rail have spoken numerous times about hydrogen trains, and have mentioned bi and even tri mode trains. Even if Dublin Cork is electrified, we'll still need trains to go on other lines too.
I'd be stunned if Cork-Dublin gets electrified in the next decade. To get it done, and given how long it takes to get any sort of non-roads infrastructure up and running in this country, you'd want to see serious movement now with allocated funding and plans being progressed.
There is actually another town with over 20, 000 people but without rail transport: Letterkenny. Its population is approximately 22, 000.
Proportionate to our population that'd be a superior service than almost anything on offer in Europe (and therefore the world).
I think this is a great point worth keeping in mind. Of course everyone looks on with jealousy at 300km/h high speed rail in mainline Europe, but miss the point that it connects much larger cities in Europe.
A line that connected a million person city to a 300k city, wouldn’t be much more than a branch line with slow trains in most of Europe, unless there were more big cities along the line.
I think we are actually quite lucky with the network we have. With the exception of Navan and Swords, every town with a population of 20,000 or more is on the rail network and good connectivity between the cities.
We just need to try and make the most of the network. Speed increases, frequency increases, electrification, double tracking, etc.
It would be great to see Dublin-Cork running electric trains at 200kmh, technically high speed. We could have 90 minute journeys between the 2 cities every 30 mins. Proportionate to our population that'd be a superior service than almost anything on offer in Europe (and therfore the world). I think most of Dublin to Cork can already do this, its a pretty straight alignment and good quality track, the verges are well maintained and most of the low bridges have already been replaced and the last 4 level crossings will soon be gone. Alot of the stations could use a bit of work though. Doing the same for Dublin to Galway would be a much tougher exercise, but gradual improvements over time are how it gets done.
Yes.. Design speed, not in-service speed.
Currently, I suspect we have some sections of track already capable of 200km/h running in theory, but as the fastest train on the network cannot exceed 165km/h, that track speed is irrelevant.
Really, trains will not run faster than 160 until the lines are electrified. That will have to happen in the next decade on Cork-Dublin, as the locomotives are coming toward the end of their operational life, and there's no way we can justify buying more diesels to replace them..
Most likely the details are spelt out in other documents.
I'd assume that in general the line/signalling/rolling stock will all be designed for at least 160km/h running, but of course you wouldn't be doing that speed entering/exiting a station and then there would be line restrictions for maintenance.
It isn't a perfect analogy, but think of the intercity motorways, they are designed for 120km/h running (or higher) and so are most cars. But then it isn't like you will be doing 120km/h at peak times on the Naas Road or approaching Cork, etc. Plus there can be temporary speed restrictions during works, etc.
So the goal would certainly be for the entire line to be designed to 160km/h minimum, but not really an average speed for a journey.
So having a short stretch of 160kmh track would meet the legal obligation.
Even getting the Wexford train to Wexford in the morning (before Noon) would be an improvement.
You would not want to be using the train to get to a business meeting in Wexford if you are based in Dublin - or even Enniscorthy.
If you don't limit the quote to just the speed you will see "shall allow trains to travel at 160 km/h or faster". That is certainly top speed and stops and lower speed sections will reduce the average speed.
Even just getting the Wexford line upto 120 would be a massive improvement, 140 would be a dream
Usually when folks talk about speed of a particular rail route, they mean that the train, tracks and signalling are specced to handle speeds up to 160km/h, etc.
For instance you will often hear of a high speed rail line reaching 300km/h and it certainly will do that for stretches of the track, but obviously it will slow coming into stations and it certainly won’t average 300km/h for the entire journey.
"160kph or faster" would indicate average to me rather than top speed, but regardless I doubt we're going down that road.
Indeed, one of the definitions for high speed rail is that it has to have an average speed above 150km\h, (along with a top speed of over 200km\h) and there's no way we're building high speed rail anytime soon.
"Allow trains to travel at 160km/h or faster" sounds like a top speed not an average speed.
Most of the network I can't see reaching 160kph unless serious funding is put in. Given the Cork/Dublin line averages 92kph, on the most "modern" route, it would require a nearly 100% improvement in existing journey times.
I would be delighted to see it happen. It would halve most intercity journeys, making a fairly dramatic comparison with their bus counterparts. However given how getting ML through the govt was like getting blood from a stone, I'll believe it when I see it.
I agree.
I'd argue a bare minimum of stopping at Hazelhatch for DART exchange should take place, although doing this much closer in to 'skip' DART stops makes a lot of sense.
I think that's the big missed opportunity of Heuston West, if it was built across the mainline at Islandbridge it could act as the transfer point for DART from Intercity and Commuter.
The plan, apparently, is that all intercity trains will stop at Portlaoise only, then Heuston. I suggested that all these trains should make a dedicated stop nearer to the city for a direct Dart interchange, though I got very little support here for that suggestion.
The idea that you'd need to change at Portlaoise, 90km outside the city, to connect with the commuter or Dart network is ludicrous.
I would say that routing could for sure increase in use, if it wasn't for DART using that routing, it might be a case of, change at Park West to DART and then Cross Guns for the airport, but given the planned frequencies those would be pretty painless transfers.
I think the Heuston West Station not spanning the Heuston approach tracks is a bit of a missed opportunity for a transfer station and transfer is something they will need to give due consideration in designing a Ballyfermot station into that line.
Shrug, so what? Two transfers wouldn't be unusual on public transport around the world. I'm sure many of us have done it in the likes of London without barely thinking about it.
Also it is possible they could route some trains from Cork etc. through the Phoenix Park tunnel, it use to be done semi regular in the past.
