Oh goodie we're back to the tedious conversation of deporting Ukrainians, and how dare they be here and not fighting back home. That wasn't an obnoxious segue the last N times, or a façade for the usual anti migrant biased.
Not sure how much to credit this but trending on google.
Russian troops struck down by "mouse fever"
Over qtr of the population is now in Western Europe, millions more in Russia occupied Ukraine.
Add in that most of the ones in western Europe are women and children and it's going to be an existential problem for Ukraine, especially if it also has family reunification.
It'll be an empty space and an easier task for the red army, though they'll still make it difficult on themselves.
And how you propose we deport 100,000 + Ukrainians to an active warzone .
Bear in mind we have only managed 1500+ Deportations over the last 30 years despite tens of thousands of failed asylum seekers and illegal immigrants arriving here we can't even deport the 20% of foreign prison population here either
Da comrade.
Lol, what? Oh please tell me that's sarcasm, I'm just tired, and you didn't just try to tankie me.
I'll admit it was slightly tongue in cheek.
More of a personnel carrier than a tankie, though your views would be similar enough to how Russia needs people to think, I know you are not pro Kremlin.
The question of whether Ireland should be just sending back Ukrainians out of some "tough love" strategy is a nonsense, and often nothing more than a rebadge of the general anti-migrant feeling beloved of some of late. Leaving aside the legality of doing so, and certainly not getting into another segue about the morality of it all (after some trying to imply we'd have a moral obligation to take up arms, JFC), it is a little ... amusing how the idea of forcibly sending Ukrainians back into a war has distinct ... Soviet vibe about it.
I suppose they think it could never happen to them, so they can afford to divorce themselves from empathy a bit and take a hard line. If it were them in that position, they'd take all the help and mercy they could get and complain quite bitterly if they felt a danger of being forced out of their temporary home.
What's this, the fourth time you've brought this up?
Come on Furze, you've already laid out your intentions on another thread. Your kids can't buy a house and you think deporting some immigrants will lower property prices.
Maybe there should be a mechanism. Laws can be changed. Do you want the Russian Nazis to win? There's millions of Ukrainians under Russian control who can't help the war effort.
Why couldn't the millions of Ukrainians in Europe help? If their country asks for some back to help maintain their existence we should oblige.
We're not taking woman and children being fed to the frontlines here. We're talking teenagers who become young men returning and joining the war effort. Whether that's logistics, industry work or training to be a soldier it's vital. Woman can also contribute to the war effort massively behind the front line and free up men to the front.
And I know there's no political will because Europe is hell bent on increasing the unions population for economic reasons.
I always thought we were giving these people temporary refugee until they could return. Obviously in reality things are different.
And nobody is calling for 100k deportations but if Ukraine comes calling for man power and want people back to help the effort. Anyone they request should be returned out of respect for Ukraine. Given most of the 100k are woman and children you could be talking a small number of say 5k from Ireland and obviously much more from countries like Germany and Poland. But these 1 percenters make a difference when you're up against Russia trying to wipe your nation out.
The way I look at it, if Ukraine doesn't want anyone back fair enough they would obviously feel it's not necessary. But it's looking like they will want people back so why would you deny them?
They can ask for people to return but they can't force people to return or demand people be deported, I don't think there's any official agreements in place either about Deportations with Ukraine, but another thing is the asylum process they currently have temporary protection but by law every Ukrainian here has a right to seek asylum which would end any motion of returning to Ukraine,
We're not taking woman and children being fed to the frontlines here. We're talking teenagers who become young men returning and joining the war effort.
Oh well that's ok then. How brave of you to volunteer young men for a war in another country; the flippancy with which you would throw people back into a war zone as some acid test of loyalty is, as I said, such a soviet and russian attitude. Though your conspiratorial last sentence that the EU are darkly bumping our population outs your opinion as emotive, at best.
I never realised it was our moral duty to return refugees to their home country so they could be used in the same war they're fleeing from. I would have thought that would breach some law or convention... 🙄
It's not a conspiracy. The EU openly claims they need to increase the population for economic reasons and are not happy with the current birth rate. It's how capitalism works. Endless population growth needed for endless economic growth. A flawed model imo.
Back on topic, it's not me volunteering them but Ukraine are now suggesting it will call for some people back. You support stealing a countries population from a country fighting for it's survival? You do realise many Ukrainians in Ukraine have been mobilised who want nothing to do with war? It's how things work when you fight for your very existence against a formidable foe.
You said
There's a difference between Ukraine making a plea for volunteers to bolster ranks, and this above which reads like Ireland should "oblige" in shipping refugees and asylum seekers back to a war zone if asked, regardless of people's desires. Nor are we "stealing a countries population", which is a fairly dehumanising way to describe the refugee scenario - and more than a little grotesque considering the actual kidnaping of children being committed by Russia.
It's flippant, reductive and ignores the human part of the equation. I feel sorry for anyone fighting on the frontlines who never wanted to. And I feel sorry for people who fled here 'cos they don't want to fight. Shockingly, people don't want to die and/or separate their families. This is not an outrageous position to take.
But I am not getting into another round of arguing why shipping back able-bodied Ukrainian men is somehow a perfectly normal, rational choice 'cos it's obscene, dehumanising and has the distinct whiff of comfortable hubris from someone with nothing to lose - but plenty to "gain" with such an outsized anti-migrant position.
Europe is "stealing" the population of Ukraine?
How? by offering them safe refuge during a war?
I don't think any country is restricting the movement of refugees back to their home country if they want to go.
Can you at least be transparent with the intent behind your posts. You don't agree with immigration policy. You would prefer if there were fewer immigrants. You're trying to cover this up with some nonsense argument that by accepting refugees we're "stealing a countries population" and letting the "Russian Nazi's win".
Poor effort.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-december-21-2023
You could go yourself volunteering like be no need to deport you or anything I bey we could even have a whip round to get you ticket's .......even a couple of the kids could go give a chance for everyone else to get a house.......
As I said, the usual suspects will rise to pooh pooh the idea that Ukrainians wanted for service should be returned.
What sort of moral fibre have ye lot got? You're a disgrace. I would expect any self respecting Ukrainian of service age to actually want to return to do their bit for their country. That is what is required of you as a citizen and always has been so. It's a very basic duty.
And yes, if I has found myself in that position I'd be doing just that, just like my grandfathers signed up in WW1 and uncle in WW2.
And I'd hope you'd do the same if it came to defending Ireland/ EU against an existential war.
Right jasus that's a very stirring speech......I'll go along with you myself we better get good armour plates and stuff ........ or maybe we'll just stay nice and cozy at home with too much to eat and drink and spit vile comments on an anonymous forum 😒😒😒 plonker
You're missing an important point - Ireland is not currently being invaded by Russians (in a military sense anyway). We are obligated to assist Ukraine as we can but we are not obligated as Irish citizens to sign up to do our bit.
Ukrainian citizens are though - it is their duty to defend their country.
If Ireland were attacked tomorrow, I'd certainly expect all of able citizens to rally and be prepared to do what is required. And that includes you, assuming you're an Irish citizen.
And yet these Ukrainians are not returning. why is that? Ah but I see a handy way to despise these men who are not "self respecting" of course, and so open to question or vilification.
Perhaps the problem is more complex , requires more empathy and nuance and understanding of basic human responses, than your personal, and conveniently safe, sense of puffed chest patriotism that knows it will never be asked of it. Easy to tell people how they should behave when your big talk will never be out to the test.
And you can say they "should" be returned, but there's the little problem that the law says they can't. So you can huff and puff about what these men should do with their lives - reality intervenes.
Utter nonsense
@RoyalCelt always thought we were giving these people temporary refugee until they could return. Obviously in reality things are different.
And nobody is calling for 100k deportations but if Ukraine comes calling for man power and want people back to help the effort. Anyone they request should be returned out of respect for Ukraine.
I believe that around 40% of the Ukrainians living here are male so it not just a few men it's tens of thousands of males 18+ here,
Again there is international agreements or laws that would allow anyone to be forcibly returned to warzone,they can ask but they have zero authority or ability to force anyone to return to Ukraine to then be forced to fight in a war that they clearly have no interest in .this time last year we were hearing about a million man army from some , where's the hundreds of thousands called up already,
Zelensky will find himself in serious trouble if he starts to think he can demand hundreds of thousands of men and boys be deported from EU States who have already given them international protection
There's not a single war in history that hasn't resulted in the mass exodus of citizens, able bodies or otherwise. Well with the exception of absolute monarchies pressganging the serfs. These are not cowards abandoning their duty. You may want to dial back the swagger cos it's shallow, superficial stuff and demonstrating a critical lack of understanding or empathy.
Great if true
I'd love to believe that, would be a bad day for the Russians. Probably as bad, if not worse than when Ukraine shot down 5 planes and helicopters within Russia in a day.
Didn't they previously sneak a Patriot battery near the front? Possibly they've done it again.
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