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Prime Time Gender Issues (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

[Deleted User]

Waiting list in Tavistock for transition detailed on Prime Time

Mod note - discuss the topic civilly and in good faith or don't post.

Referring to trans people as mentally ill or men in dresses will mean a threadban at the very least

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Montage of Feck

Maybe it's me, but we seem to be increasingly listening to fringe interests over common sense for fear of causing offence, perceived or otherwise.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498286#Comment_121498286

What's common sense about denying trans kids and forcing them to deny their own existence?

El Gato De Negocios

I find it quite interesting that the overwhelming majority of the talking heads last night and in general on this topic are men that have transitioned.

For example, I've not yet heard of the female to male shouting about being allowed to use men's changing rooms, it's always men (that ive seen), many of whom are still packing meat and two veg that want access to female only changing rooms.

It's never female to male athletes shouting about being allowed to play in men's sports.

I heard something over the weekend about internalised misogyny and essentially, alot of biological women feel they have to go along with the charade, rather than upsetting men.

There is no doubt in my mind that there are more than a few men out there claiming to be women so they can access female only areas, do better in sports and get lighter prison sentences. These individuals are doing serious damage to those people in the world that are genuinely trans and who just want to go about their lives.

Thankfully the world now seems to be ready to take a step back from everything and ask the questions that need to be asked.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497936#Comment_121497936

But puberty blockers have been used for decades to stop early onset puberty. Whether they're used earlier or later, there's a lot of experience in their use. Just because they're using it on someone trans and not cis, doesn't make a difference to the medical outcome.

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496975#Comment_121496975

Social contagion and a perpetual need to be seen as unique compared to their peers. So one says they are trans, the next will one up by claiming to be non binary and the trump card one will claim to be both.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498285#Comment_121498285

It's not for me to decide. I'm saying it should be doctors who decide. An extreme comparison maybe, but doctors can prescribe fentanyl for the relief of certain kinds of severe pain. "Choosing" to put that in your body outside a doctor's control nearly always ends in disaster.

As for the research, there's an awful lot of poor quality research out there. Systematic reviews are the highest standard and they are saying the evidence basis is not there.

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498314#Comment_121498314

Uhm, they don't shout about it because they're simply allowed do those things without much complaint. I don't know any guy who obsesses over what if someone with a vagina using one of the cubicles in the mens (happens all the time any time the queue for the ladies gets too long). And in changing rooms, guys don't go around checking out each others' junk unless they're looking for something so ignorance is bliss there. Similarly, given that men are considered better at sports than women, there's no fairness issues around allowing people who have transitioned from female to male to compete in men's sports if they so wish.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498366#Comment_121498366

Well why are you suggesting it's not in people's best interest if you believe it's for doctors to decide?

[Deleted User]

Kids shouldn't even know about this kind of stuff. They should be riding bikes and having fun.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498316#Comment_121498316

There's a huge difference between a condition like early onset puberty with a physiological cause versus one like gender dysphoria which has a psychological cause. That's why the use is approved in one case and off label in the other.

apache

Just catching up on it now. Why did TENI refuse to take part? Didn't even give a statement.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498475#Comment_121498475

Why?

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498475#Comment_121498475

Exactly. Treat kids as kids, not miniature adults, or even worse, using them as ideological pawns.

Once you're 18, they can identify as a badger or toaster or whatever, knock yourself out.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498532#Comment_121498532

Indeed. It could be argued pretending trans kids don't exist is using them as ideological pawns. It's an ideology to pretend trans kids don't exist.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498499#Comment_121498499

No there's not. Physically the uses are both the same. In both cases someone starts puberty and the drugs stop it. The medical effects are the exact same.

Psychologically in both cases the onset of puberty is distressful. In both cases the blockers relieve this distress.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498320#Comment_121498320

None of which are in any way unique, so it doesn't really seem to be about being unique.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498532#Comment_121498532

Are you suggesting that trans kids don't exist, or should be just ignored until they reach 18?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498475#Comment_121498475

Many trans kids 'know about this kind of stuff' from four or five onwards, because they are living it. It's hard to be 'having fun' when a fundamental part of your human nature is wrong, and you're being forced to live a life that doesn't match what you are.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498366#Comment_121498366

It IS doctors who decide. No one gets medication, surgery, even therapy without having been medically assessed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498286#Comment_121498286

Forcing someone to live a life that is fundamentally wrong for them is nothing to do with 'causing offence, perceived or otherwise'. It is a cruel and unusual torture.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498511#Comment_121498511

Because they knew the programme would be completely unbalanced, and they didn't want to give it any legitimacy, most likely.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498320#Comment_121498320

And when everyone’s unique, nobody’s unique, so an alternative uniqueness has to be sought. Social media has a lot to do with social contagion of all kinds, and children are accessing it waaay too young for de eloping minds to cope with. It really is psychological abuse of children to allow unfettered access to it at a young age and we are going to realise that in many ways in decades to come.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498560#Comment_121498560

Of course they do.

But the recent trend of teenage girls saying they are boys is another story.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498642#Comment_121498642

Which you blamed on autism, with literally no evident to support your claim. As far as I can tell you don't know anything about autism or trans people.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498515#Comment_121498515

Because it's screwing kids up. Kids are suggestible, if you put the wrong ideas into their heads you can mess them up.

For most of human history kids did not know anything about so-called transgenderism. They turned out fine.

For the last decade, kids in the Western world have been exposed to the ridiculous notion that they might be 'born in the wrong body', or that they would be happier if they switched gender. They read about it on the internet, saw it on a tv show, or maybe a perverted teacher taught it to them.

We can objectively compare before and after. The outcome of transgender ideology is overwhelmingly negative. Learning about this stuff has not made kids happier. It's confused them, it has induced transgenderism in kids who would never have got it. Lives have been ruined, kids have been mutilated.

It's a literal epidemic. It's a disease that did not exist in any real numbers for the entirety of human history. Now they're saying 1 in 25 have it? The stats are shocking, I saw somewhere that there was a rise of 400% in a few years. We need to deal with it like any epidemic, stamp it out.

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498316#Comment_121498316

Its makes a massive difference if puberty blockers are being retrofitted for trans healthcare. Many teens who get surgery as soon as they hit 18 are still under the effect the blockers have on their mental state. When they stop treatment , and their mind develops , many suffer from transition regret. This leads to suicide. Its documented , its a fact. That people would deny this so more youth sleep walk into life changing surgeries isn't just malpractice or ignorance , its an act of evil.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498662#Comment_121498662

No insight at all into why teenage girls suddenly saying they're boys.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498684#Comment_121498684

Not providing services to trans kids leads to suicide. It's documented. It's a fact. In far greater numbers than the tiny percentage of a tiny percentage of transition regret cases.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498665#Comment_121498665

Did you talk to many trans people about the 'turned out fine' worked out for them?

[Deleted User]

When I was very young I hated being called a girl, I despised the term, I felt mentally like a boy. Possibly because I had 3 boys living either side of me and had frequent encounters, I don’t know. I hated dolls, threw one out the window, loved guns, Lego, meccano, cars, airfix planes, anything to do with engineering. I was best at maths and also anything creative that wasn’t sewing or knitting. Clothes bored me except I always wanted to wear trousers rather than dresses. Nowadays I would have been considered transgender.

Later I preferred to have a relatively gender neutral look. Became more feminine as I progressed through life, always sexually attracted to men. I learned to fly aircraft, and continued with interests that wouldn’t always be considered feminine by society. As time went on I realised that being female can mean having typical male interests and outlook. There’s many ways of being a man or woman.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497671#Comment_121497671

No, the word grooming is not exclusive to child sex abuse.

noun: grooming

the practice of brushing and cleaning the coat of a horse, dog, or other animal.

"regular grooming is essential to the well-being of your dog"

the practice by an animal of cleaning its own or another animal's fur or skin.

"mutual grooming expresses the friendly relationship between cats"

the practice of keeping a neat and tidy appearance.

"she pays great attention to grooming and clothes"

the practice of preparing or training someone for a particular purpose or activity.

"Allen was expected to need lot of grooming before he was ready to take over"

the action of attempting to form a relationship with a child or young person, with the intention of sexually assaulting them or inducing them to commit an illegal act such as selling drugs or joining a terrorist organization.

"online grooming has become a growing cause for concern"

Note the second meaning. Prime Time exposed grooming via the internet and showed an example.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497483#Comment_121497483

"Like being rogered!". Have you not heard of Tops and Bottoms!

There's a higher proportion of gay people in the autistic community

Really! Evidence for this?

El Gato De Negocios

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498685#Comment_121498685

The teenage years are exceedingly difficult for women, from menstruation to hormonal changes to the unending stream of social media and the "perfect female form". I genuinely believe that the stresses of adolescence are too much for some young women so rather than have to deal with the crap that goes hand in hand with being female, its easier to just say they arent female. Part of it is fad too no doubt, trying to be different, rebelliousness etc. Obviously there are some people that are geniune and will go on to adulthood and transition to living as a male but alot of it is just trying to survive puberty. And that doesnt even touch the presence of ASD.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499075#Comment_121499075

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/autistic-individuals-are-more-likely-to-be-lgbtq

https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/autism-lgbtq-identity/

There's two short articles. In general though, an autistic person is far more likely to be LGBTQ+ and that goes for every letter there.

Edit: BTW, they were just the first two google results. There was just page after page when I googled it. If you're interested in knowing more about neurodivergence I'd recommend a book called "Unmasking Autism". It's written by a neurodivergent queer person.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497750#Comment_121497750

There was zero balance in the show. No mention of the harms done to the much larger majority of trans kids and adults by NOT having access to services. No mention of the years of delay on the waiting lists for services. No mention of how rare 'regret' is for those who have gone through surgery.

It was a fairly classic hit piece.

Rubbish. The report wasn't intended as a documentary on the joy's of trans medial care, it was a expose on how the HSE are being led by outside influences like WPATH with their so called 'affirmative care' model. It was triggered by a formal complaint 2 doctors who founded the national gender services made to the HSE.

TENI were invited to comment but declined and they had a rep on from Trans Healthcare Ireland. Doesn't sound like an unbalanced hit piece to me.

Pherekydes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498511#Comment_121498511

They did indeed give a statement:

https://teni.ie/teni-statement-to-rte-prime-time/