Old thread seems to be permanently locked. It will be interesting if anything can come of this at last.
Threadbanned Posters:
The sun will print anything
The website is full of rubbish
So they've started printing the truth?
In fairness, whoever the new suspect is...
Any good Solicitor would destroy Bill Fuller for breakfast, and spit him out for dinner.
You can't go around remembering critical information nearly 30yrs after the event.
There is obviously no physical evidence to review, its all hearsay, it's going nowhere.
Where does it say “new suspect”?
Where does it say anything about Bill Fuller?
At least read the crap if you’re going to comment on it.
Correction - Bill Hogan.
Keep your hair on... Makes no difference if it was Bill Clinton or Billy the kid, the passage of time is too great to take any notice of a recalled memory from nearly 30yrs ago..
For some time the Ungerers' role in all of this has been bothering me.
Someone further up the thread suggested that the murder could have been committed by a woman, due to the frenzied nature of the attack. I feel that the killing blow delivered by a concrete block also ties in with this theory.
Yvonne Ungerer was the second-to-last person to see Sophie alive I believe?
There are inconsistencies in Yvonne's testimony as to when Sophie left her house. According to her Sophie left at almost six p.m. while reports say Sophie left around four p.m.
(Can't remember but was Yvonne the one who spread the story of Sophie being scared by her vision of the 'White Lady', which supposedly is a premonition of death?)
Yvonne is the one who said that Ian Bailey told her he had a 'dark premonition' the night of Sophie's death, and that these premonitions 'usually come true.'
Yvonne said that Bailey told her he was out on the road the night of Sophie's death.
Sophie and Yvonne's husband Tomi Ungerer were planning some kind of artistic collaboration to do with bodily fluids.
In the other thread about the case people went around and around in circles discussing why Sophie would possibly open her door to someone in the middle of the night but would she open it to a woman? Particularly a woman who was her friend?
Apparently the bottle of wine found in a ditch can be bought in the French duty-free. The Ungerers are French.
If anyone wants to correct or add to the information here, feel free.
Edit: just some further thoughts. This was an emotional attack. It was an attack borne of rage and fear and hatred. I think it would be hard to argue otherwise. There was no sexual assault attempted. The reasons this case has gone nowhere is because no one has managed to sufficiently explain the emotional nature of the attack. Her turning down a drunken man attempting to court her in the middle of the night, a man that she did not know (there is not one iota of evidence to suggest that Bailey and Sophie knew each other) does not explain the frenzied rage in which she was killed. The emotional nature of the murder is the key to the motive. Work backwards from it and you will find your answer.
Further: I just realised that Yvonne Ungerer claims that Bailey told her that he met Sophie on the ferry to Cape Clear Island.
I can't post the link but this is the headline in the Irish Independent if you search for it: 'Sophie Toscan du Plantier witness claims Ian Bailey told her: ‘I was washing the blood off my clothes’
Very interesting. Read a lot about the case a long time ago but very interested to hear if there is any evidence refuting what you stated. If not, it's a solid enough theory.
The Ungerers lived about 10 miles away, so doable if they knew where Sophie lived.
Tomi didn't drive, but Yvonne did. He died 4 or 5 years ago. Yvonne dismissed Bailey's so-called confession " I suppose I was washing the blood off my clothes" as half joking.
https://archive.ph/Z4RsC#selection-1573.110-1573.258
Bailey's "confessions" played a large part in the Gardaí's case against him, so why would Yvonne pass off this confession as "half joking"
By the way Bailey didn't tell her he was on the road, he said a witness reported seeing him on the road.
I don't recall reading anywhere about Bailey telling Yvonne about his "premonition" on Hunts hill, maybe you have a link?
You think Yvonne Ungerer murdered Sophie Toscan du Plantier?! Really?!! You say there is not one iota of evidence Bailey knew Sophie… Multiple witnesses have provided statements which indicate Bailey did know Sophie, including Mark McCarthy who has given statements about seeing them speaking to each other on Cape Clear.
It's possible, - one option. It's worth examining, for sure. They both were within reach, and knew that she was at her cottage.
However I wouldn't understand their possible motive, neither Tomi nor Yvonne, - that is unless they were both involved in drugs and Sophy could implicate both of them.
Otherwise, nothing is proven.
Another question, I would have. Were the Ungerers close to Alfie and Shirley?
"However I wouldn't understand their possible motive, neither Tomi nor Yvonne,"
Jealousy? maybe Sophie flirted with Tomi. Tomi said that Sunday was the first time they had met. Turned out he had met her previously.
Fight beyween Yvonne and Sophie got out of hand and Tomi had to finish the job?
As likely a story as Bailey killing her
As I have written, "it's possible". So could Bailey, her husband sending someone, Bruno, some other ex lover?
But it's a bit hard to investigate now.
Tomi passed away. Don't know if Yvonne is alive? And even if they find Yvonne's DNA there, it's unlikely it'll prove murder. It's likely Yvonne as well as Tomi have been to Sophie's house before when she was in Ireland, thus leaving prints and possible DNA / hair?
With new more sensitive DNA tests could an analysis of the wine bottle yield new evidence? (undetectable the first time) .
It’s been “mislaid”
The local guard's Xmas party?
The dumped bottle of expensive wine is a real head scratcher..
The wine was not available in Ireland at the time, and appears to have come from France, possibly via a spot of duty free shopping..
It is quite possible (very probable), that Sophie herself brought it into the country.
If she did bring it into the Country, did she gift it to somebody, or was it taken from her cottage?
I doubt the murderer would have taken it (for obvious reasons), so who would she gift it to?
The Ungerers maybe need a little more light shining on them?
Again, why would an unopened bottle of expensive French wine be dumped in a field near the murder site?
Was it a stick it up your a*s gesture?
Didn't Sophie agree to participate is some erotic film with Tomi Ungerer - I wonder how Yvonne Ungerer felt about that little enterprise?? Was Tomi getting too familiar & friendly with the French woman?
Would it be too much of a stretch to suggest that Mrs Ungerer threw a wobbler after Sophie left the property? What if she decided to confront Sophie about her unwelcome conduct and notions to make erotic films with her Hubby...?
Sophie's sassy retorts could have lit the fuse wire...?
I think the murderer was driven by blind rage, they wanted to seriously hurt the French woman.
Considering Sophie was only in residence for a few days a year, she could hardly have made such mortal enemies in the locality?
This murder could quite easily have been committed by a female, one driven by temper and jealousy, hell hath no fury and all that......
DNA tests or not, I doubt there will ever be a conviction beyond reasonable doubt.
Today it's hard say who was when and where that night, and also DNA could have gotten there before the murder happened. This is especially the case if there is a stone or cavity block which could have been touched or handled by anybody.
Why do you say they had a plan to make an erotic film? Why are you lying?
I find it likely there will be a conviction - notwithstanding the high standard of proof… The murderer has a tendency to talk too much, that tendency combined with advances in forensics and the additional statements gathered from key witnesses… Is minic a bhris beál duine a shrón.
You don't know who 'the murderer' is for sure. If you do, go the Guards. So obviously you don't, you're just alluding to things here - therefore sentences like that have no credibility. Simple as that.
According to The Irish Times today the Gardai have recently been in regular contact Sophies son and have assured him they are confident the case will be solved soon.
https://link.thetimes.co.uk/click/33720931.1099/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cudGhldGltZXMuY28udWsvYXJ0aWNsZS93ZWxsLWdldC10b3NjYW4tZHUtcGxhbnRpZXIta2lsbGVyLWdhcmRhaS10ZWxsLWhlci1zb24teHZyanczcHZ2/64426dff9ad1f0f0f50a279eBec513bb9
Wake up and smell he coffee bud...
if you are not aware of these snippets of information (the basics), maybe you should study the case a little more before posting comments..??
I've read most of this thread over the years and I can't recall any discussion about Sophie making a erotic film with Tomi Ungerer.
Can you point to your source for this?
Rubbish. Provide a link to prove your baseless point instead of your patronising reply.
My mistake it is in the Irish section of The Sunday Times, here you go....
https://archive.ph/a6Tis
They spelt "Schull" as "Skull" FFS.
There are a number of ways it is spelt including Scoil but Skull is recognised.
This will never be solved, they don't have a clue who did it and don't have any evidence either.
It's that time of year again;
Like busses, nothing for ages, then 4 all at the same time.
I like this one;
"One garda source said it was clear that, when updated, the file will offer “a very strong and very detailed case” revolving around circumstantial evidence"
What, like someone remembering a "confession" or remembering they saw Sophie with someone a few years previously?!
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