I suppose it's a debate that could be had... I'd personally say that the Kirk Uhura one was bigger at the time, with Nichols' race literally and legally being seen as sub-human only 3 or 4 years before that episode, with that switch in status still being a massively controversial issue in 1968 (and for a long time after). Of course the US has always been fairly awful in its treatment of all non-whites, but Black people always had a special level of sub-societal status fundamentally ingrained in all aspects of daily life, so publicly elevating someone at that precise point in time was I think, the biggest such moment we've seen and indeed will ever see.
I think the proof is somewhat in the pudding that whenever this subject comes up, everyone immediately thinks of 'Star Trek' for the cultural impact of the moment. (I'd actually never heard of "Sea Hunt" until I googled to see what you were referring to, and in a bit of searching it doesn't seem like it created much news/furore at the time?)
A kiss between a man of European ancestry and a Japanese woman on TV less than 15 years after the end of a particularly vicious war was probably a bigger deal at the time.
First kiss between Black and white was a much bigger deal anyway - at that stage Black Americans had only just recently been recognised as legally equal, with segregation having just ended. So that specific dynamic was a massive culture shock, and a real sign of 'the future'.
Certainly you get a sense of the disparity of tone with Trials and Tribulations; a warm mockery of TOS but a stark light thrown on just how different the series was.
I like SNW cos they managed to find the balance between the retro-futurist look of TOS, but still looking like "our" own future at the same time.
Ya TOS canon is all ove the place even with itself. Starfleet and the Federation was really only nailed down in the TOS movies as the names change a few times in TOS and the structure is not fleshed out.
I always think the movies (probably due to production dates) fir in with Berman Trek better than they do TOS.
Yeah TOS is its own thing really. It did lay the foundation, intentionally or not, for the greatness that came next. I could see why fans at the time would take issue with TNG, given how neat, tidy and formal it probably felt to watch it.
TNG was progress in every way though (silly early episodes aside). It raised the bar on TV (maybe not on the big screen) for storytelling, visuals, production, it's all objectively better for the most part.
You absolutely cannot say that about Discovery. It's not in any way an improvement over what came before it.
SNW holds its own, on reflection I can get my head around it being set preTOS, but definitely not Discovery. It's pure tripe, in most measurable ways for me.
Tbh, I only watched TOS for the sake of completeness. It's a very different show to TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT imo. Even "canon" wise, aside from the core characters and concepts (Kirk, Spock, Scotty, Uhura, Federation, FTL travel, Klingons, Romulans), it doesn't really line up that much or even maintain much internal consistency with its own canon for that matter.
Like I don't think it was unfair for fans of TOS to complain about TNG being so different, it really was. As someone who grew up on TNG it's different in the sense of much much better imo but different nonetheless. Similarly Discovery is a very different beast to the Trek series that came before. Worse imo, but it does have its own legion of loyal fans who absolutely love it.
Same could be said of the original Series re. tone and execution: think people quickly forget how ... "theatrical" and pulpy TOS was, especially compared with later shows like DS9 - arguably the show at its most "this is serious stuff". The original show was a swashbuckling adventure series whose Big Thinker episodes were outliers - and often quite reductive in their own way.
Strange New Worlds sits happily in the same universe. Yeah it's splashier and more "modern", but its heart is exactly the same grinning and charismatic show of fun space adventure the 1960s show ever was. Can't say the same about Picard - even the much improved season 3. They corrected the worse mistakes but prior seasons were objectionably bad drama, let alike Star Trek and whiffed its titular character badly.
Yeah I'd accept that actually. Enterprise gets a bad rap, but once it gets going it definitely has some good moments.
I count 4. TNG DS9 VOY and ENT
Personally, I find it easy not to think of the modern stuff as being in the same universe as the three golden era shows....they're so different, tonally, visually, the acting, the writing...you name it.
I did really enjoy Picard S3, same with SNW, Lower Decks, and Prodigy, but they're still "separate" for me. I don't find myself watching a TNG episode thinking it all turns out like shown in Picard, thankfully. There's just no connection for me between the shows.
Discovery, Picard S1/2 I'll likely never watch again, so they're quite easy to forget.
I can't tell if your making the joke about there only being seven seasons or not. Actually, a better example is the Star Wars prequels or sequels, a lot of people feel they colour their enjoyment of the previous films. If you can compartmentalise information like that fair play but when I go back to an episode of TNG I do sometimes get Picard crossing my mind.
That makes no sense.
Game of Thrones was different seasons of the same show. The same story with season 1 the start and 7 the end.
Absolutely nothing like the slight links TNG has to Discovery. Nothing about the Picard show even has any real bearing on TNG episodes.
It's not outrage to say when they make disappointing to downright awful sequels/prequels it can colour your enjoyment of the originals. It's a slightly different case but rewatching the first fours series of Game of Thrones they are definitely coloured by the steep decline of the last four.
You are. It's obvious from your posting the last few years.
I was about to go "when did Leia meet Obi wan?", before realising I had totally forgotten the Kenobi show was really and indeed, was predominantly about kid Leia. Yeesh.
I'm not looking for outrage but new experiences colour old ones.
Not for me.
I still watch TNG all the time and I never get annoyed that the ship I am looking at will survive crashing into a planet and then Millennium Falcon it's way through a Borg cube.
I don't think Spock has a sister when I watch TOS.
It's easy if you are not looking for outrage.
While true there's only so much watering down a franchise can endure before it colours the parts you do like.
There is so much Star Trek and Star Wars now that I just came to the point where I can completely shut my brain off from the bits I don't like.
Space Hitler running S31 will be locked away in the vault with child Leia meeting Obi Wan and Picard fighting Seal Force Borg.
Probably one of the few times Toronto got to be itself and not a stand in for any number of US cities.
Sure if you got rid of it, they'd just move to Atlanta or any number of other low tax cities!
Would you miss Toronto... if some sci fi type accident befell it... wasn't that the plot of a recent SNW ep :)
A small price to pay.
So apparently that Section 31 movie is gonna start filming in Toronto on Jan 29th - so it's still definitely happening 😫
22,142 views Premiered on 8 Dec 2023
Multi universes crossover, Prime, Mirror, Avalon, Stargate & Orville.
Or skin colour was a much more obvious delineation especially considering the picture quality 60 years ago.
Edit: ya seems to be an urban legend or at least partially.
First kiss between a black and white person it seems rather than interracial. Probably says a lot about the different ways that Asian and African women are sexualised in the media.
It wasn't the first interracial kiss on US TV.
The other difference is Kirk/Uhura was the first ever interracial kiss on US TV. Adira and Grey were not exactly breaking any ground. Grey dating a straight character with that character not having any coming out story or looks/questions from others would have been much more provocative (which these things are supposed to be)
Culber and Stamets felt important in the same way Drummer and her family were (Expanse) precisely because they had no coming out, explanation or tortured back story. They just were.
Also Grey being a Trill who lived as both genders makes it once again a bit of a cop out just like Jadzia only being bi cause Trill stuff was.
As a gay myself, if that matters, seeing Stamets and Culbur brush their teeth together in one of the earlier seasons was great. Unremarked upon. Perfectly normal. In the future it just doesn't matter. Like the Kirk+Uhura kiss, or the black captain, or the female captain. Just didn't matter (in the show).
I'm not trans but I do think they comparatively made far too much of a deal about how right-on and accepting they were of the trans character in later seasons. Suddenly it felt like, even in the 23rd? 25th? (whatever) century, it was still a big issue that needed specific attention and deliberate respect.
But I mean the writing and characters and everything was just awful anyway, so it's not like they only dropped the ball on this issue.
I actually kind of like the Neo-Constution. I liked her plenty as the Titan-A, but I'm having a hard time accepting her as Enterprise-G.
It's something about the weight that comes with the name at this stage in Trek history. After Kirk's adventures, the Enterprise name seemed to belong to Starfleet's flagship, which seemed to attach itself to cutting-edge designs which reflected their age.
But Enterprise G...I'm not sure. She seems to damned ordinary to have the name. Not a bad ship at all...but not the legend she should be.
