Well sure. Fair enough.
Ya I was only thinking of the main 4 in Lower Decks. Mariner is a black, bisexual woman and no one cares which to me only reinforces the point that all this white man crap has nothing to do with why Discovery is terrible. Mariner is also part of an argument I have made plenty of time.es before in regards to Discovery not actually being all that progressive at all.
To be honest I should have said nothing to that other poster because there is no point with people who cry about "woke" and all that shte
Although Shax is Bajoran, and Boimler is half Ribena :P
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I couldn’t give a fiddlers about the demographic makeup of my Trek cast. The whole lot could be Latina Lesbians for all I care and all I’d really care about are the characters and their writing. Discovery can tick off whatever boxes they want, and people can focus on race and gender all day long if they want, but at the end of the day I just want well written Trek, and Discovery failed in that.
It all gets a bit confusing... if we are counting non humans eg Bajorans what about Odo and Quark!
This really is angels dancing on the heads of the pin territory...
I'm guessing he's giving Bashir a pass as Alexander Siddig is half Sudanese.
As for lower decks: Boimler, Shax, Ransom...
Bashir was played by Alexander Siddig (went by Siddig El Fadil in early seasons and his name according to Wikipedia is Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abdurrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi). The characters parents were both played by Asian or Asian heritage actors too.
Even O'Brien despite being a "HWM" was a welcome minority in Trek for being a genuinely non American character and actor which is something I hate about the very Hollywood California sounding modern Trek.
I agree with your sentiment but weren't both Bashir and O'Brien HWM?
Statistically there are 0% Kelpiens in the USA too. Big Woke gone mad I say.
A series should try to represent all humanity in its various forms, but Discovery was bizarre in not having any hetero males for a long time.It was unnatural. If, say, it had been full of them, then you young uns would have been up in arms. If, say, there were no gay or black characters? Even though statistically, that is more likely than less likely in the USA where these shows originate. You could easily end up working in a place with no gay or black people.
You are completely missing the point. I'm only talking about Discovery. It had barely any for most of its run. It went out of its way to virtue signal practically every other group. I hope I didn't offend your woke sensibilities! But I only clearly talked about Discovery-you got up on a high horse a tad too quickly on that one and took it right round the ST franchise. Impressive
Oh dear, won't someone please think of the poor heterosexual white males.
Lower Decks has 1 heterosexual white male. SNW has 2 and Prodigy has none.
DS9 only had 1 heterosexual white male.
That's only a problem in your head.
I thought seasons 1-3 were not that bad but the 4th season was terrible beyond belief
There was a failure to develop characters and a patent lack of heterosexual white males. The introduction of pike was a breath of fresh air.
I'm not watching season 5 even if I was stuck in solitary confinement and that was the only show to watch.
McMahan is a fan of and parodies the most popular era of Trek which helps (as well as being a better writer)
The Disco crowd are fans of a small little pocket of non canon fandom (which they are desperate to canonise). They are from the very early Trek forum days and if you hang out somewhere like TrekBBS there are older posters who actually remember them. At times they are literally writing to please their friends by putting some 90s fan fic shop or idea into canon. Enterprise F from STO had no reason to be in PIC except to give it that 5 seconds so it's canon and me for the refit NX-01. Feeling the need to explain Picard's accent is straight out of nerdy forum debates too.
I did not know that.
That... explains SO MUCH!!!
Nothing wrong with being a fan of something - just helps if primarily you're a good, competent writer who knows basic story structure and screenwriting. Look at Mike McMahan after all for a Fan who did well.
Which remains Disco's primary crutch: the writers are singularly and spectacularly untalented people.
It shows. The writers on Discovery have no business doing what they're doing.
Many of the current top team were fan fic writers. That's why we are getting loads of references to really obscure book stuff like NiVar.
I think it was Michelle Paradise who started out writing Janeway and Chakotay romance fan fics.
And, the worst thing is: The original Many Sue short story was written as a parody - As a critique of poor fan-fiction.
It was as if some minor exec was charged with coming up with a new Trek idea. They did a quick Google for Trek forums and saw a post pointing someone to the Mary Sue original on a Star Trek thread. That got a million likes as long-term fans thought it was funny and accurate. This exec saw all the likes, didn't look at the comments (Which would have been along the lines of "Oh man, this is SUCH a good parody of early FF"). Then thought "Hey, Trek fans REALLY like this Mary Sue character. We'll do that. Job done. Phew, that was a tough 30 mins".
Honestly, her character is SO similar that I'm almost 99% sure that's EXACTLY what happened.
I'm going to go with a combination answer there:
Seriously though, if they do go for "Sacrificing herself to save everyone" they will have actually ticked off one of the final squares on the Lt. Mary Sue Bingo-Card.
Here when I mention "Mary Sue" I am referring to the original Trek fan-fiction character of legend "Lieutenant Mary Sue" who is the namesake of the of the wider used pejorative "Mary Sue".
Lieutenant Mary Sue had the following traits:
Starting to look familiar? Burnham is missing one thing which Mary Sue does at the end of the short story.
I bet you a good chunk they'll try this. It's childish hammy stupid writing, but that's right up their alley it seems. I will be plesantly surprised if they don't try to make her the Greatest Martyr in Trek History!
That episode was kind of the beginning of the *very end* for me and this show. I remember watching the setup of that one where we get Cupler giving us the Cold-Opening to the episode proper with his Medical Log and spent a good chunk of the first act building up his relationship with Adria ahead of their arrival to Trill.
If this had been ANY OTHER Trek series (or frankly any other TV Drama), it would have been Cupler who accompanied Adria down to Trill to help out with a very personal (and I guess medical) challenge.
But no, the relationship dynamic comes to a crashing halt when Cupler suddenly recommends that Burnham should be the one who goes planet-side with Adria when they reach Trill. Why? Because she's Micheal F***ing Burnham, that's why! In this version of the Trek Universe the world only turns thanks to the sheer force of Burnham's awesomness. Never mind Cupler's attachment with Adria or obvious help as a Medical Officer. No! Send Micheal!
So by the time we got to the end of the Season, and she was Captain, it was all too clear. I would not enjoy this show anymore. ..and so I have not watched it since.
I dropped it when they went to Trill a d brought Burnham and I have no intention of picking it back up
The trailer is full on with all the things people who don't like Discovery hate. But turned up to 11.
TAS is bad, agreed. But it's got the benefit of being a half century old cartoon....Discovery is a modern big budget TV show, and has absolutely no excuses to even be in the same conversation as TAS. The fact we're even comparing them is alone quite telling.
Worst show? That's still TAS for me.
I'm guessing Burnham and Book are going to have a child and they will make Emissary Sisko look like John the Baptist.
Also possible yeah, but as you say, no matter what happens it's impossible to undo the damage at this stage. I don't imagine EVER rewatching Discovery, no matter how good an ending it may have.
For me it is, and will remain, an absolute waste of the IP due to abysmal writing. By far, the worst show in the entire franchise.
Imagine if this season actually turns out to be good but it's fate is already sealed.
It'll be one of a few things I imagine:
Burnham saves the galaxy.
Burnham sacrifices herself to save the galaxy.
Burnham saves the galaxy and disappears off into the unknown, or is sent off to another time period as a result of said saving of the galaxy.
Or
Burnham restores the Federation to its former glory, but even better this time.
Possible surprise ending:
Saru gets a half decent sendoff.
I gave up watching Discovery after season 3. I did try the first episode of Season 4 but as soon as I realised it was going to be all about Micheal again I gave up.
Don't know if I will even bother with season 5. Might just watch the last episode to see what a mess they make of it.
As soon as they moved to the 32nd century it got a lot easier to give up on because I didn't even feel like I was watching Star Trek anymore.
Ya they will name drop Q or the Klingons but it has no relation to the other shows and is so far in the future I am very certain someone will come along and make shows filling in the huge time gap that will shred Discovery's canon. You can't make an 8 century gap and not expect people to step on toes with your own story.
Nicely summed up :)
I myself am not a Hate Watcher. If I dislike a show I will typically stop watching and give my attention to something else. With Discovery I survived up until the end of Season 3 Hope Watching the show. Hoping that they'd nail down the format in Season 3, like previous Trek shows. Hoping that they'd give us interesting characters and concepts while developing the interesting stuff that had already been there. While hoping out of hope that they'd learn their lessons with Burnham and cease making her the singluar focus of everything on the show. But no, I ran out of hope. By the end of Season 3 I had started to view watching Discovery to be more of a chore than entertainment.
I was already kind of done long before Season 3 ended, but the ending itself and Burnhams promotion to Captain made it very clear that this show would not change course nor improve. The teaser trailer for Season 4 sealed the deal for me, I simply couldn't be arsed anymore.
I will not watch Season 5, because I know I won't be entertained by it. Nor am I going to really miss out on important Trek lore, because they don't know how to do that. I will hovever watch the finale. Partly to see if I guessed right, and can actually grasp the final episode without bothering with the Season itself (they don't know how to do arcs). But finally also to see what legacy (if any) they will attempt to stamp onto Trek going forward. My guess is they'll fail. They'll make it big and epic, and full inane speeches from Burnham, but it won't land.
Then we will be left to wonder, how will this show be remembered when it is gone...or will it be forgotten?
