General Irish politics discussion thread

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451046#Comment_121451046

Agree with that,kind of,my views on airline carbon footprints notwithstanding But I'm more concerned with the waste of money involved and the waste of Dáil time with yet another several hours spent circling wagons instead of legislating or solving problems

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451068#Comment_121451068

That's your opinion on my views and you're welcome to it,I stand by them so we'll have to agree to disagree

You'd think air traffic is not shrinking, its growing and by virtue of that airlines are in the business of filling bums on seats,the aim in fact is to over sell so there's capacity to fill no shows and yes that means tanks will be full or as near as necessary more than not

A moot point for even the amount of fuel you're saying Ryan's journey is going to take vs what a holiday flyer to Dubai would use on just 1 or 2 days commuting from wexford

It's yet another reason going on about air travel carbon footprints as if they're 'not insignificant ' is ott

As to how much fuel a commuter might use,and that they should work more locally, that wouldn't go down well on the M11 or any other motorway into Dublin,its idealism

Idealism is good but not too often realistic

Reality is road commuters are saving multiples of the fuel used to carry them to their foreign holiday

It speaks volumes to the 'fauxness' of the outrage on air travel

More in people's line to be looking at the 96% to 98% not the 2 to 4%

I don't see it happening though

That's where I stand on the issue,I think I've got that you don't agree but it's probably for another thread somewhere else,this one might be better going back to its usual fare (pardon the pun 😆)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121450261#Comment_121450261

If anything it is an underestimate.

The plane will not have "a full tank", it will have the amount of fuel the flight computer tells it to and no more; because carrying fuel uses fuel.

This is clearly not something you have any understanding of. And your utterly ridiculous simplification of thinking that flights are going to run when there's no passengers can be debunked by how there were a tiny fraction during the pandemic - demand causes the flights; not the other way around.

Also - if a commuter is using 60 litres of fuel a day, they need to get a job closer to home and a more suitable vehicle. I can go 2/3rds the length of the country on 35 litres, in a surprisingly inefficient car.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121450261#Comment_121450261

Ultimately this is not about grams of CO2 pumped into the skies per knot, it is a virtue-signaller having his signalling shoved where the sun ain't shine.

I doubt it's that much too many variables

The plane will have a full tank leaving Dubai

A headwind more,tailwind less

But even if it is ,the average commuter driving into Dublin or Cork would use way more fuel at home commuting to work (Ryan wouldn't obviously but Im sure he'd near equal it in power usage somewhere) accepting your figures than you would for getting to your weeks holidays in Dubai

That's critical thinking and has me convinced the whole footprint hoo ha is overblown generally

To me talking about Ryan's carbon footprint too is like a microcosm of the idea that cutting cattle numbers in Ireland for example hurting the Irish rural economy when Brazil's plans to increase numbers there by more than the Irish cattle herd helps anything

Add to that the fact that there's less cattle in Ireland now than in the early 70's

Oh don't get me started !

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121450064#Comment_121450064

Its about 30 litres of fuel, each way. And that's assuming he hasn't got any bags.

Its a 6000km+ (depending on routing) flight; and that is the fuel requirement just for an extra passenger on board - taking the weight of the airframe and fittings as already covered. If he has 20KG of bags, add another 5 litres each way.

Carbon offsets are nearly entirely scams.

Of course I do accept that there might be a pint of extra fuel burned to carry Ryan probably less

Calling it noticeable or not insignificant in Ryan's case in the context of the entire industry contributing 2 to 4% is ridiculously ott

But then I also think the tax reaction to the war by climate dramatists on air travel is more about raising taxes than any genuine climate urgency from the politicians

I'm more worried as a tax payer at the cost of the ticket

I am curious about the 'carbon offset' that the government says will be paid,how does that work or where does that few Bob go ?

It's probably a lot less than the airline is getting unnecessarily from the vote in the Dáil tuesday

All specific sectors can use the 2/4% GHG contribution argument. It's a similar figure for the fertiliser industry, methane from cattle etc. It's when you add all these that you get 100%. No single magic bullet in one sector. The focus on methane ATM, is because success with that would buy time, about 20 years for the other sectors.

Minister Ryan was very clever in not egging it too much, just let the viewers and listeners reach their own conclusions on the Dail vote.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121448151#Comment_121448151

The vast majority of confidence votes are political manoeuvring.

There are those who seem to think there is something sinister in SF trying to gain political advantage or inflict political damage.

It’s of course a ridiculous position when all political parties will do this if they see political weakness.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121449970#Comment_121449970

You're wrong on the fuel and refuse to face the concept that demand is the reason flights exist.

Oversimplistic or ignorant, I'm not sure which

Fuel load is calculated based on the number of passengers and the weight of all bags and cargo. For a long haul flight every passenger makes a noticeable difference to the fuel required.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121449950#Comment_121449950

Will Ryan's plane be flying if he doesn't have a ticket yes or no ?

I'll answer that

Yes it will be

Lol There is NOT an extra amount of fuel required to carry Ryan home

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121448144#Comment_121448144

Could there not be some mechanism for 'distance' voting in such circumstances in this day and age?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121449926#Comment_121449926

This is an exceptionally simplistic view. Two massive holes in your logic

1: Routes (most - there are cargo heavy passenger flights) don't fly if there aren't passengers for them. If people don't fly the aircraft doesn't fly. Frequency and aircraft size get reduced if demand goes down

2: there is a not inconsiderable amount of extra fuel required per passenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121448144#Comment_121448144

I think it's laughable for sinn Féin supporters, a cynical lack of self awareness in fact,to be highlighting Eamon Ryan's higher Carbon footprint caused by a sinn Féin no confidence motion that's ironically harming themselves not the government

The carbon footprint argument is ignorant rubbish too

The planes Ryan will be on will be flying anyway,they won't use any more fuel with him on board

There is no such thing as an extra carbon footprint by flying on a plane already flying

It's a made up fallacy propagated by governments that basically use it to pickpocket tourists via taxes in an industry that contributes 2 to 4% tops of global pollution and its a figure that's falling not rising

Seth Brundle

To be fair, the only reason SF are doing this is to try and harvest votes.

Generally, no pairing on what is essentially a vote of no confidence in the Govn't. SF the party of law and order want more action from a Minister for Justice and the Guards😁

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447909#Comment_121447909

Not sneering at him Pere, criticising his (and the Green's0, high and mighty stance, which he should have known was going to get him into these situations.

A high moral grounder hoist by his own petard.

Peregrinus

The timing of the vote of confidence was of course determined by SF, who tabled it. Plus, if SF think there is a benefit to his being at the conference, they could offer to pair him. Sneering at a predicament that SF engineered is not really a good look for an SF supporter.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447633#Comment_121447633

Well maybe he might be a bit less high and mighty about others. It’s not always easy to live and save the planet at the same time.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447262#Comment_121447262

I hardly see how it's Ryan's fault the vote will happen during the COP summit?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447234#Comment_121447234

No idea. Ryan seems to have a penchant for getting caught in these binds

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447212#Comment_121447212

Well whose fault is it that he has to?

Is there not a system of pairing available?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446476#Comment_121446476

You could not write it could you?

blanch152

Opinion poll in the Indo suggests support for Helen McEntee among voters has risen. Sinn Fein vote falling below 30 again.

This motion could be another own goal by the party of good republicans.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444163#Comment_121444163

Minister Ryan will have to fly back from Dubai to vote and then fly out again.

Peregrinus

A vote of confidence in a government minister will always get a 3-line whip on the government side.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441604#Comment_121441604

She will survive comfortably. SF have not put down this motion with any expectation that it can possibly succeed.

It's fanciful to be honest to be saying whips will be 'needed' for to get government t.d's to vote confidence in the justice minister.The prevailing thinking in government is sacking her would be a win for thugs and scumbags

That said,I don't know if any vote of confidence ordinarily means a three line whip though,I'd say it does