I'm not complacent, I just understand the situation and the law.
There is no point charging him with an offence when there is basically no chance of a guilty verdict.
you think the evidence was overwhelming, the DPP, who are legal experts, decided the evidence was enough for sexual assault and serious assault, they are the experts that understand evidence and court procedure probably more than you ( no offence)
he got 11 year sentence, so won't be released in 6 years. 25% reduction equals 8.25 years in prison. That's not nothing
Oh, I understood that you believed what you were saying. I was just shocked that you are so complacent.
You do know he could have been tried for both attempted murder and for assault?
This was not a complex case. The evidence against him was overwhelming. He left his victim for dead having stabbed her multiple times with tremendous force. He did everything a murderer would have done but miraculously she survived. Is our legal system is so inadequate and unpredictable that he couldn’t be charged properly?
Fortunately, the judge recognised the gravity of his offence even if the DPP failed to prosecute the case to its proper extent.
But he will be released in about six years time. Still a young man and his record will not reflect the horrendous nature of his crime.
If the media was concerned about the rule of law, they might ask these questions but the media didn’t even report on the trial.
I'm saying it as fact. If the evidence is there to secure a conviction for serious assault, then it makes sense to charge the offender with that. They did commit a serious assault.
far better to get a conviction, then chance no conviction at all for a different charge .
'The more scammers we take the less genuine can be helped.' Who would these scammers be? Refugees who are desperate because their own countries have become dangerous terrible places to be? or just old fashioned scammers that you get in every walk of life?
You're saying the Irish national media, without exception and without coordination, arrived at the conclusion that their audience would not be interested in a trial which exposed the full horror of this brutal sexual attack by a burglar on a young woman in her own home in an Irish provincial town. By that logic, if Ashling Murphy had survived (e.g. if the ambulance had arrived immediately), the media would not have deemed the trial of her attacker as worthy of any reporting.🤯
I’m saying that your impression that our national media are in cahoots to protect immigrants doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny. By that rationale they must equally be in cahoots to protect Irish criminals seeking as they don’t do a whole pile of reporting on them either and it’s more or less left to regional media to cover these cases if they imagine them to be in the public interest.
47 homicides this year but I assume all of them are reported fully. Are you aware of any homicide trial in Ireland which has gone unreported in our national media? Can anyone explain why this was not a homicide trial i.e. why a charge of attempted murder was not brought in this case?
Put aside your assumptions for a minute, are they all reported on fully? It’d be difficult to verify but I’m sure if you put in the legwork you could satisfy yourself one way or the other as to whether or not all 47 cases were reported on fully. It’s reasonable to conclude that the 3,658 cases of sexual assault weren’t reported on fully, yet you have a bee in your bonnet about this one case?
I’m not particularly concerned as you are about what cases the media deems worthy of coverage, and I don’t imagine they’re all in cahoots either, seems unlikely for example that there would be any overlap between the readership of the Sunday World and the Sunday Business Post? I only mention them because they’re poles apart in terms of their content, whereas the Irish Independent, the Irish Times and the Irish Examiner would all have similar content which appeals to a similarly minded readership.
Although in saying that my old man bought the Irish Independent daily, wouldn’t be seen dead reading the Irish Times 🤔 But they were different papers back then. Nowadays I used buy the Sunday Business Post from the man in a van when I’d be coming out of mass, same as my old man used do, but even that’s gone to shyte nowadays and isn’t worth the €3 I think they’re charging these days.
Basically if I’m understanding your point correctly - you’re under the impression that there’s an agreement between Irish media outlets to only publish similar content that doesn’t speak ill of immigrants and promotes Government policies as being a positive for Irish citizens or some similar narrative to that anyway. I can’t say I’ve seen the same phenomenon as you do because for one - I don’t have much interest in Irish media outlets, and two - they wouldn’t make much revenue from that strategy if there were no ideological differences between them which would appeal to their respective readership, never mind attracting new audiences, seeing as print media is dying on it’s proverbial arse!
You say that as if it’s OK.
A woman survives a murderous attack only to be is told her assailant will merely be charged with assault. That would be a travesty of justice.
Perhaps you mean the rules of evidence make it difficult to secure a conviction for attempted murder. Who made such cruel and unjust rules?
DPP very rarely brings charges of attempted anything. They tend to prefer charges that they have a fair chance of securing a conviction.
Attempted murder is much much more difficult to prove in court then a serious assault.
It’s not that, that part is only relevant insofar as it’s not true that Ireland is the only country where immigrants are entitled to welfare (and because of reciprocal agreements with many countries besides just the UK, plenty of immigrants who returned to their country of origin are entitled to welfare from the Irish system); it’s the part you’ve twice overlooked now which originally stemmed from the argument that the phenomenon of Irish emigration couldn’t be compared to Irish immigration because of this notion that Irish emigrants didn’t get handed anything and worked hard and all the rest of it.
That’s simply not true, and it was never true. I’ve already given examples of how Irish emigrants immigrated to other countries to avoid prison, and that’s not counting the fact that the Irish Parliament at the time followed Westminster’s lead and used Australia as a penal colony to transport undesirables to anywhere else but Europe 🤨
In 1786 the Irish Parliament, following the lead of the English Parliament, passed a law providing for 'the more expeditious and effectual transportation of felons ... to some of his Majesty's plantations or settlements in America, or to some other place or places not in Europe'.
https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-919437026/findingaid
You don’t see what having a CTA, which involves reciprocity in welfare systems, and allows any citizen of the U.K. and Ireland to move freely within those countries, has to do with Irish people moving to the U.K. and getting reciprocal welfare??
It’s fairly self explanatory
The UK. Irish are entitled to social welfare there same as their own citizens. And plenty do.
I'm not sure it's about 'deserving poor'. It's a big world out there and we are a tiny country with limited resources, we can't help everyone. The more scammers we take the less genuine can be helped
Sure we’ll have to wait and see what happens, won’t we?
https://m.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/news/former-wexford-hurler-arrested-for-drink-driving-in-us-after-head-on-collision-near-golden-gate-bridge/a670754381.html
I’m not sure what having a CTA with the UK has to do with Irish lads fleeing there to escape being sent to prison in Ireland or getting involved in criminal activities in the UK or ending up on welfare, if they don’t end up homeless and destitute with no help from the Irish diaspora over there. Ironically enough they’re still entitled to housing assistance provided they can meet the habitual residency requirement, same as Ireland then.
And what will happen if they’re caught in the US? We also have a CTA with U.K. so that makes no sense.
Found guilty on two counts of violent disorder, therefore not innocent, as you were making out.
'Rules Ireland ignores.' Kinda reminds me of a 6yr old at a birthday party complaining that another kid got more sweets.
Making threats, he was found not guilty of assault.
We are free to move, only if we can support ourselves. There are rules attached to it, rules Ireland ignores.
It would be nice to think that humanity has progressed since the 19th and 20th centuries of slavery, famine, laissez faire economics and two world wars and a cold war.
Perhaps we're better than that. Maybe we've gotten beyond looking for the 'deserving poor.'
Irish did emigrate of course but had to work and integrate they weren't handed anything, so I don't feel that's a point you can make
Course it’s a point can be made. The Irish weren’t handed anything the same as immigrants from every other country weren’t handed anything when they arrived in the US in particular. Different times, different countries, there was no welfare system then and Irish immigrants were hated by the natives the same as every other immigrant group - Italians, Chinese, etc. The same tropes about them being a threat to society and taking all the jobs were bandied about by people who didn’t want them invading their country.
Plenty of Irish criminal gangs then as there are today, and many of the Irish who immigrated to other countries depended on the diaspora who had already immigrated there to help them get settled -
https://www.geni.com/projects/Irish-Gangs-in-America/8950
Even in the 90s and 00s I knew of lads who were fleeing to other countries because they owed money to people here or they were trying to avoid the law and being sent to prison, or they were just out of prison and couldn’t get employment anywhere. Some went to the US and entered illegally, stayed illegally, still there, illegally. Most went to England where they worked on the building sites for cash in hand, or went on welfare, or simply ended up getting into trouble with the law over there too and doing a stretch.
I don’t know that they refused to report on the trial, it’s far more likely an editorial decision was made that there wasn’t an angle in the case they could exploit to generate any interest, much like the way they didn’t report on the other cases of homicide or sexual offences there were in 2023 alone -
47 homicides
3,658 sexual offences
Recorded homicide offences increased by 31% (or up by 17 incidents) in that period compared to the previous year.
Murders, which increased from 24 to 47 incidents, contributed to nearly all of this increase.
Sexual offences were up by 1% to 3,658 incidents over the same period.
https://www.thejournal.ie/number-of-murders-nearly-doubled-ireland-cso-6177929-Sep2023/
I don’t imagine there’s any great conspiracy by the media to protect the reputation of immigrants or anything, sure they’re made a meal out of the Limerick councillors gaffe which was possibly the least offensive thing could be said about the scumbags who went on a rampage in Dublin wrecking the place.
When I say fictional far right what I'm referring to is the labeling of the majority of the country as some kind of far right bogeyman, those who couldn't be classed as such and simply have genuine concerns. The centre no longer exists apparently and not agreeing with all of this makes you a far Right-er. Of course the actual Far right is real and have a lot of policies we wouldn't want to see in Ireland but with all the shutting down of debate it won't make it difficult for their views to take hold here.
If you can show me examples where the Irish have gone abroad and had everything handed to them for free, accommodation, welfare, health care, etc, I'll be happy to agree with your point.
There is no system in place to see the genuine cases from the scammers and that is on government policy, it is human nature to look after number one, the system is at failure here. I would see no problem with helping genuine cases temporarily until they get on their feet, provided they integrate of course, but the current system is a free for all
There's nothing fictional about the Far Right - 'Vote for us so we can strip you of your rights brigade.'
Plenty of people left Ireland without two brass farthings in their pockets and couldn't speak english. They were refugees in the 19th century. How many more of us left since the foundation of the State - 1930's to the present day - how many were just looking for a better deal? Ireland in the 50's to the 70's? Yikes!
There is a distinction to be made between refugees and people who want to game the system. That said there will always be people who want to game any system. What irks me is the notion that everyone should somehow suffer because a minority game the system.
Sorry, I'm still in Sunday morning mode guzzling my caffeine 😁 but I feel like it's all a little off topic. I understand your point we all have free travel within the EU, but despite what insults have been used towards the fictional 'far right' EU immigration has never been a problem, well to word it better any immigration, come here, support yourself, integrate.. Who cares, come make yourself at home. It's those coming in to be a drain on the system, no young people could leave here without a job or money set up elsewhere, no matter how impulsive it might be.
It's a strange one alright, you'd imagine it'd be very topical in light of attacks on women.
A girl on her own in an apartment and a fella breaks in, sexually assaults her, stabs her in the neck and leaves her for dead- zero mention from any media outlets on her trial apart from radio Kerry n gript.
Maybe radio Kerry didn't get the memo!
The rules state that you can stay for three months under your own steam. If you need medical care you can produce your EHIC card at a public facility (rules and costs vary). If you want to stay longer as far as I know you have to show that you can support yourself.
The point I'm making is that if you get it into your head to move anywhere in the EU, you are free to do so. I don't know why this is causing such a furore. Irish people have been travelling and living all over the world for generations. Remember when we were refugees in the 19th century? That was fun wasn't it?
So, if Jimmy from Athens wants to live in Tralee, again I say, so what?!
Generally people doing this will have a pot saved before they do anything like that, I know your examples are within the EU but their rules still state you can't be a drain on welfare for longer than 3months (?) before they can send you packing. Young people going off to Australia /Canada etc have to have a fund or a job, money runs out they gotta come home.
The national media reported his arraignment six months ago, but not on his trial.
So this case was on their radar but they refused to report on the trial. Why do you think? Please don’t say “because they ran out of pages in their newspaper”.
Huh? We talking about the same fella?
Kyle Hayes - convicted on two counts of violent disorder:
https://www.thejournal.ie/kyle-hayes-found-guilty-on-two-counts-violent-disorder-6238235-Dec2023/
I never said that they did. What I did say is that as EU citizens we are free to move and live anywhere in the Union. As with anything in life, there are times when finances go sideways. It doesn't mean that we stay put wherever we are originally because things might go sideways.
