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Will the greens be in government after the next general election?

thejuggler

So we will have a general election in the next year or so. Will the Green Party be in government next time around (as part of a coalition) ? Just trying to assess the likelihood of a green minister for transport for the next 6 years and how that will hinder development of the roads network.

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tikka16751

They will get a record number of online voters.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401147#Comment_121401147

Well they (SDs) are free to preclude themselves from govt if they wish.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401098#Comment_121401098

This is what I mean by connections. Personal relationships matter.

https://www.economist.com/europe/2020/07/18/how-ireland-gets-its-way

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401240#Comment_121401240

No, it isn't.

It's an irrefutable fact that some in FG campaigned for both policies, some campaigned against one or both, and some did nothing. Same as FF.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401354#Comment_121401354

Seriously? The Paddy's Day junkets are your "connections"?!

"Who are these people I'm meeting?" "The Irish Minister for... er... well, lots. Children, Equality, Diversity, there's a couple of more things. He's with the Green Party. And Stephen Donnelly. He's their Health Minister. He's with Fianna Fáil, one of their centre-right parties, but fairly broad church populist. They'll present you with a bowl of shamrock, you thank them, and there'll be a meeting between officials about trade. We've the press release done up if you want to read over it - usual stuff, 'warm relations, trade opportunities, long history between us', and so on."

Two years later: ""Who are these people I'm meeting?" "The Irish Minister for Housing, Eoin O Broin. He's with Sinn Féin. You know the ones, used to be terrorists, embraced the peace process, also in power in Northern Ireland. Left wing populists. And Micheál Martin. He's their Health Minister. Used to be tea-shock - their prime minister. Tried to get a job in Europe but didn't get the nod. He's with Fianna Fáil, one of their centre-right parties, but fairly broad church populist. They'll present you with a bowl of shamrock, you thank them, and there'll be a meeting between officials about trade. We've the press release done up if you want to read over it - usual stuff, 'warm relations, trade opportunities, long history between us', and so on."

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401552#Comment_121401552

"On a per-head basis, Ireland has a good claim to be the world’s most diplomatically powerful country. Its finance minister, Paschal Donohoe, last week won the race to become president of the Eurogroup, the influential club of euro-zone finance ministers, despite the French and German governments backing another candidate. In June Ireland won a seat on the un Security Council, fending off Canada, another country often flattered by comparison with a bigger, sometimes boorish, neighbour. Barely a decade after a financial crisis saw Ireland bailed out, Philip Lane, the former head of Ireland’s central bank, is the main thinker at the European Central Bank. In Brussels, Ireland’s commissioner Philip Hogan is in charge of trade, one of the few briefs where the European Commission, rather than eu governments, is supreme. And the eu’s position on Brexit was shaped by Irish diplomats.'

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401483#Comment_121401483

No, not every single member did. That's unrealistic.

But the leaders and majority did.

I wouldn't expect every member of a political party to fall in line for divisive issues, approximately 1/3 of the country didn't so I'd expect political parties to represent the electorate.

kabakuyu

Remember folks that below is the type of GP TD who is seeking re-election, time to send these guys packing, and remember do'nt give them any transfers, they are'nt the harmless hippies we all thought they were.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/green-minister-says-attacks-on-art-effective-way-of-protesting-against-climate-change/42097785.html

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401685#Comment_121401685

The paintings are protected by glass. They threw soup at glass. It can be cleaned in 5 minutes.

They should be lined up and shot for trying to protect our planet.

Our only home in the entire universe.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401685#Comment_121401685

He’s not wrong. He’s also not condoning it, or encouraging people to do it, but it absolutely is an effective way of protesting. What’s the point of art if the human race carries on destroying the planet?

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401685#Comment_121401685

“What is worth more, art or life?” cried Plummer. “Is it worth more than food? More than justice? Are you more concerned about the protection of a painting or the protection of our planet and people? The cost of living crisis is part of the cost of oil crisis, fuel is unaffordable to millions of cold, hungry families. They can’t even afford to heat a tin of soup.”

Which aspect of this statement do you disagree with?

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401619#Comment_121401619

Not getting your point, Eamonn. We have some intelligent people who were successful in politics or finance; they got "promoted" to decent positions in EU/international bodies. We horse-traded for a seat on the UN Security Council, where the US or Russia or China could veto any reasonable suggestion we made.

You could write a similar article about any EU state, or, pre-Brexit, the UK. The Employment & Social Rights Commission is a pretty beefy one - it's headed by someone from Luxembourg. Cyprus has Health & Food Safety - quite important in a Covid world where climate change and the Ukraine war are causing food crises?

Our current commissioner, Mairead McGuinness has been bumped down to "Financial Stability, Financial Services and the Capital Markets Union"...

Hibernicis

@orangerhyme I have to correct you on two points in post #136

“Same sex marriage and reproductive rights were core FG policies.”

That is completely wrong. Marriage equality was never “a core FG policy” in fact there was a lot of opposition within FG, both principled and pragmatic, to same sex marriage and the suggestion of a referendum on the subject. This persisted right up to 2014.

“It wasn't a compromise as part of a coalition.”

100% wrong on this one also. Eamon Gilmore had campaigned for marriage equality for many years, as far back as his student days in fact. It was Eamon Gilmore who insisted on the inclusion of marriage equality in the 2011 Programme for Government. But for him, it would never have been on the agenda. It most definitely was a compromise by FG who were very divided on the subject at that time.

In recognising Gilmore’s role in getting to the holding and winning the 2015 referendum, I’m not in any way taking away from the work done by many individuals, NGOs and other bodies. It was a very broad collaboration by some very unlikely parties. But on the political track Gilmore's role was instrumental, whereas FG were very late converts. And I say this having never given Labour a first preference.

And if I may divert back to the thread topic for a moment, I think the real question is "Will the greens be in ~~government~~ the Dail after the next general election?" As somebody who gave the Greens a preference in every past election where they were on my ballot paper, based on their performance in the current Government (Ryan's in particular) I very much expect that they will be decimated at the next election and loose most of their seats. Which will hopefully allow them to get their act together under a new leader. The many mistakes they made in 2007-2010 could be put down to naivety, lack of preparedness, being outmanoeuvred by the wily ff boys etc. This time around there is absolutely no excuse. They need a leader who can communicate effectively and bring people with her or him, not one who pisses off even their most ardent supporters.

If you want to brush up on the facts of the Marriage Equality referendum there are some very good sources online, here’s a couple that will help you:

https://lgiu.org/case-study-eamon-gilmore-and-the-fight-for-marriage-equality-in-ireland/

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/enda-and-gilmore-fall-out-over-same-sex-marriage/29872790.html

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392708#Comment_121392708

Personally, being a Labour supporter for 45 years, after the way Gilmore, burton & Kelly & now Bacik led, I’ll never vote for Labour again.

mikemac2

Dublin Docklands was supposed to be a temporary solution and was to be closed in 2016. As of course we had a masterplan for metro and Dublin Docklands would be replaced by a new station at Spencer Dock. Which never happened 😏

Oh I have read all the stories of pickpockets on Paris metro and the overcrowding on the London Tube. And these things exist but the worst overcrowding I had was when a 4 carriage train from Ashtown to Dublin Docklands is a 3 carriage. People locking themselves in toilets to get standing room. Over a grand and a half a year on a taxsaver ticker to CIE to be packed like a sardine if you can even get onto the train. Some days I was timid and did not get on and then later after the 3rd train I pushed on like a rugby player. Shambles of a service.

I read the Greens want to prioritise public transport over roads. To me this is a vote winner but I have not seen it

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393208#Comment_121393208

Agree: all the minority parties suffer in coalition with FF/FG:

PD’s - history

Labour: not sure anyone cares

Greens - heading for the history books imho

SD’s - threading a fine line.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121414009#Comment_121414009

Agree: all the minority parties suffer in coalition with FF/FG:

I think minority parties usually take a hit come an election - they unfairly get the most of the blame for the government as a whole.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121414009#Comment_121414009

SD’s - threading a fine line.

SD's have never gone into coalition with FFG. Given a lot of them are former Labour members who voted against going into coalition with FG at their EGM, I really don't see them going into coalition with either party in the next few years, either.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121416142#Comment_121416142

Agree OP. I supported the SD’s in the last GE. I would think I’ll do the same next time except for one rumour which refuses to go away - they haven’t ( afaik ) stated yet that they wouldn’t go into a partnership in some form with Labour. Labour ceased being representative of the worker with gilmour etc.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121416291#Comment_121416291

Heh. Labour will come back with 1 or 2 seats, at most, I would think, based on polls. They won't be tails wagging any dogs and would be very much the most junior of any coalition partner. Not that I really see SF-SD-L being likely - I think we're far more likely to see SF-FF.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121416400#Comment_121416400

FF - SF more lilkley than other options mentioned, but still less likley that FFG + whomever to make up the numbers.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121416291#Comment_121416291

Do you not think that the parties of the left would need to coalesce if there is to be any chance of removing FF FG from government? So long as each , small, party of the left wants to remain 'pure' then the FF and FG parties will always form a government

TaurenDruid

Greens have shown twice now they'll do anything to get into cabinet, with no return on their policies. (Are they even a party of the left? I don't think so). Labour have done the same. Soc Dems would go into power, I think, if, and only if, their red line issues were going to be resourced and implemented. So I don't see them going into power with FF or FG where those parties were the biggest partner. SF-FF would possibly be an option but SF-FF wouldn't need the SDs.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401815#Comment_121401815

Glass or no glass Eamon, it’s the intent that needs punishing.

Get shut of the greens.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121416948#Comment_121416948

What are the red lines for the SDs?

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121417402#Comment_121417402

https://www.irishtimes.com/podcasts/inside-politics/the-social-democrats-are-different-says-holly-cairns-but-how/

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401685#Comment_121401685

Please I was a hippie in my younger days, lol

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401685#Comment_121401685

What kind of fool thought they were 'harmless hippies'? More fool for anyone who voted for anyone on that basis.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121416142#Comment_121416142

No real point in voting for them so, if they're determined to stay in opposition moaning, rather than actually taking action.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401637#Comment_121401637

Your claim was that these were 'core FG policies'. A number of posters have shown you clear evidence that this claim was wrong.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121421835#Comment_121421835

No real point in voting for them so, if they're determined to stay in opposition moaning, rather than actually taking action.

You're right! Instead, we should vote in massive number for FF and FG, who have been in power for literally 100 consecutive, uninterrupted 100 years, and have done such a wonderful job of running the country! /s

Or - and I know this sounds crazy, but hear me out! - we could try voting in large numbers for parties that haven't a) bankrupted the country (twice, in living memory); b) been responsible for causing the housing crisis (but want more time to fix it now); c) agreed and signed up to Sláintecare, but haven't implemented it, despite record exchequer figures; d) had a finance minister who had no bank account; e) had ministers who had findings against them at various tribunals; f) had ministers who so blatantly ignored their own and independent experts in order to locate things in their own constituency that they caused other ministers to resign in protest.

Just a thought, like.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423126#Comment_121423126

Or we could vote for those parties who will actually take the opportunity to go into government?