Very few of us get to buy new cars, ICE or EV so the price of new cars is mute. The issue is that EVs are only just starting to filter down the second hand chain so for the next few years at least most of us are stuck with second hand ICE.
I think when I come to replace my diesel car I will probably try to choose a Toyota hybrid as a half way house.
Spoke to a senior-ish finance guy in BMW recently. They were told to get as many EV's on to PCP for that very reason (second hand values). They want the banks to be lumbered with them rather than the dealers once the solid state tech comes on line and cuts the arse out of the current models values.
Will probably move over to a full EV for the family car a few years down the line - the 318d has been exceptionally reliable, wife loves the touring, and it owes me nothing. The i8 is my own daily and has been a good eye opener into how useful a hybrid can be to be honest - 18km max range and I've gone two months without seeing the petrol pump on occasion - suits my journeys pretty well. Think people need to just do their own homework and see what will actually suit them.
the point is that like for like its very unlikely the difference is 9-15k for an EV versus an Ice (an equivalent ICE) but i agree with you that if you havent got it its a moot point.
But you dont need an expensive EV, you could buy a used Leaf or BMW I3 for example.
You are probably right with the confirmation bias - I did watch one anti-EV video and scrubbed through another and my youtube feed is now filled with that kind of content. It will probably go away in a few weeks if I don't interact with it but it just goes to show how the algorithm can draw you down a rabbit hole. These videos while ostensibly are about the cars and their lack of redeeming features, the creators pepper in other conspiracy theories.
I can see how someone could go from thinking EVs are a bit ****, to EVs are being forced on us by governments wanting to take away our freedom, where climate change is a hoax and vaccines are only to control us.
I also agree with you that Irish media tends to be generally supportive of the adoption of EV's so I'm also referring to the broader media landscape which includes the mainstream in the UK and social media generally.
I was also curious if others had encountered aggression on the roads that they thought could be attributed to the type of car they drove.
Couldn’t agree more.
Fadó Fadó!
I’m not, that’s the point. I have a 152 diesel that I will run in to the ground rather than spend my savings on an expensive EV. My wife did look at the cost of replacing it with a new car. Difference was about €9000 between ICE and EV. Both are beyond our budget. My point above is that ALL cars are overpriced. Initial cost is a huge barrier to upgrading, and an even bigger barrier moving to EV. Not much point talking about running costs. We can always come up with €100 to fill the tank. Coming up with 35 to 40k in one go is just not on for most people. That initial cost is anywhere from €9-15 k higher with an EV.
With the rapid advances in battery technology I’m not convinced that second hand EVs will hold their value.
nothing to say to this really only wanted to say Hi, i remember you from the good old BMW-Driver days 😎
I've definitely noticed the emphasis placed on vehicle fires, even though there have been plenty of ICE fires over the years. If I recall, the Douglas shopping centre fire in Cork was a Zafira that was under a recall notice.
The main cost issue is that all new cars have become hugely expensive - not just EVs. People look at EV 'x' and balk because it's €50k - without realising the ICE equivalent is probably a similar price! And that's often without getting into spec - make that ICE an automatic, add navigation etc and you may find the EV cheaper! When I bought my old ID4, the nearest ICE equivalent (Tiguan diesel auto mid spec) was a whopping €13k more. Take pretty much any large / SUV style family car, add metallic and a mid range spec and you're straight into the €40ks unless you're at the bottom of the market. e.g. the most popular new car in Ireland AFAIK is the Hyundai Tucson Executive 1.6 diesel - this comes in at ~€42k on the road, and that's a manual, and not exactly EV performance either. Chuck about €4k more at it and you're driving away in a new Tesla Model Y - with 300bhp and way more spec - and much lower bills! Fancy a 7 seater ICE - bend over, because you're looking at €50k pretty quickly.
You can have any opinion you like, but do not expect people to afford that opinion an equality of respect.
The media similarly has no duty to afford fringe opinions equal treatment.
My best mate is an estate manager in a social housing development - he regularly sends me photos of people with two extension cords plugged together, trailing across a common area, footpath, and into someones front window. Its an regular issue for him now - no one has driveways and he's the one that has to tell them they can't charge their cars.
In terms on the general point here - I think theres probably some confirmaiton bias at play. If anything, I'd say Irish media is probably slightly pro EV - and some of the vlogs and interviews I see just blatantly ignore issues or gloss over them. DD had a video there which suggested that a round trip to Belfast was just as quick and practical in an EV as in a diesel - then the lad doing it happens to slip in that he basically charged the car for 90 mins while at two separate service stops. Personally, 5 mins at a service stop is way more than I ever want to spend there.
Listen to yourself. You are exactly what I was talking about. You see someone you dont agree with and you are off. Enough. You win. I give up.
What I stated was a precise analytical assessment of the merits of letting fringe opinions take equal standing in media coverage. If that triggers you then so be it.
There are serious consequences of allowing fringe theories take equal billing and in this case the "equality of opinion" position that the media took with regard to climate change stalled effective action for two decades.
See you are triggered immediately and straight into the derogatory attacks equating someone asking for fairness in science and the media to flat earthers. This is exactly what im talking about. These days, not just in science or in the media there is pressure to just throw out anything that might oppose the point of view most held by the media. Its not just what we are talking about here though. Its people getting cancelled for not agreeing on all that gender stuff. Its also the reason we now have a housing crisis. Noone can dare speak out against the masses for fear, therefore nobody does. Any argument must be allowed to be opposed freely and without fear of consequences for the it to be tested properly and fairly. Where we are is not good for society or the planet at all. But its where we are and there is probably no going back.
the Ev fanatics can explain this better, but my understanding is that for many - if you sit down with pen and paper or a spreadsheet - an eV that costs somewhat more is acually so much cheaper to run if charging it at home on nighttime electricty, and savings in maintenance (no oil changes, almost no wear on brakes, far simpler service so cheaper etc) that the running cost balances out the purchase cost more than is immediately aparant.
But, again, does a long term calculation that is very specific to peoples individual circumstances with lots of ifs and buts make good clickbait? No, obviously not.
Civil Service milage rates for EVs are in the middle band 1500cc
The oil industry is determined to halt the move to EV's and most of the press are beholden to them for advertising etc
Maybe because you point isn't very sound.
Should we allow flat earthers into the media just because they hold a different view of the world.
what are you looking at and what would be the equivalent ICE you are comparing to?
The new owner will often not be aware that they have bought an ex-Taxi and it’s likely it will have a lot less km’s on the clock also. Plenty less than honest traders out there unfortunately. Once it’s less than 4 years old, no NCT records to assist buyers.
I dont think you are getting my point at all. You are proving it actually.
We have a two car ICE household, one petrol, one diesel. Would love to replace the older diesel car with an EV. Driveway so no problem with charging point. Three problems: cost, cost, cost. Just cannot justify (or afford) the huge cost of an upgrade. Can’t see why they are so dear. Infrastructure wouldn’t bother me, that just needs proper planning.
Ive often wondered if the availability of PCP finance is artificially inflating the cost of all cars, especially EV? We have an aversion to debt of any kind (mortgage aside), so actually paying out of savings for an EV is just not going to happen any time soon.
Agree with OP that media coverage is anti EV in some cases. Don’t drive an EV so can’t comment on driver aggression.
The media is not the place to discuss scientific debate, that is for scientific journals and forums. Only the most probable science should be debated in the general media. If you are genuinely interested in developments in science then you need to turn your attention to reading science journals.
The reality is that skeptical papers represent less than 1% of all climate papers so you will rarely come across them unless you frequent climate change denial forums who will boost them.
No science is been supressed, it simply isn't credible to argue from a climate skeptical position given the overwhelming evidence. No serious scientist will argue from a position that lacks credibility and evidence if they want to progress in their field.
Im on the side that there is climate change myself.
But I am not okay with creating an environment where its only possible to get one side of any argument for fear of bullying for want of a better word.
Science needs to be tested and argued. When you dont even allow that other side to challenge your research then you have nothing.
Now im not saying that that you can argue against something just for the sake of it either. Im talking about an environment where proper science can be done and challenged in a safe environment.
Im also not okay with attributing any weather event to climate change (im just picking climate change as an example) either. See RTE with all weather stories having a line in about climate change when any severe weather event happens.
Same for EVs. Im driving one EV or another for a a good 8 or 9 years at this point so i think im well versed in the pros and cons of them. But some people refuse to see any other pov than their own. Every use case is different. As someone mentioned above, when people see the real range compared to what they were sold, im not surprised they are disappointment. When someone buys an EV and cant charge it apart from at expensive, hard to get at public chargers, well im not surprised they are disappointment either. Just because I have one and it suits me doesnt mean it will suit everyone.
There is no balance in reporting climate change denial. The media finally cottened on to the fact that give airtime to 4% of opinion was a form of bias.
I have noticed this trend, a concerted coordinated anti-EV campaign over all conservative media. Most of it is pure lies.
The Murdock media empire is heavily in the pocket of the oil industry.
Government policy isn't fully behind EVs* so weak leadership opens the door for gutter journalism and what not.
*Civil Service mileage rates (my workplace too) have EVs at 1500cc rate
*EV fleet was taking off back in 2019 and the €3,800 grant was axed
*Lack of direct Design Build procurement for charging infrastructure as a public service obligation (PSO)
Corrected cc band
Same as RTE :)
Its hard to read any print media anymore. They are afraid to actually have any opinion in case they get cancelled.
I cant even read anything about climate change in comfort anymore. There is a big problem when any opposing views cant be published because of fear of a backlash and loss of funding an cancelling etc.
You just cannot get an unbiased opinion and that makes for bad news.
Scientists are even modifying their results that dont support climate change because there is less chance of them getting published.
Unless its safe to argue for or against something then you just cant depend on the news you are actually getting.
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