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Bad Golf Holes

soverybored1878

I haven’t been able to get out for 5 weeks due to weather and other commitments. In my boredom, I was thinking about bad golf holes. What makes a bad hole? Is it, one that’s too easy, one that’s bland?

And also, what are your worst holes in Ireland and why?

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thewobbler

it’s probably easier to pick out poor holes on a good course.

Concra Wood’s final par 3 (14th) is the most extraordinarily banal (I know that’s a juxtaposition lol) of golf holes. A dunt of 150-180 yards along flattish ground that all feeds towards the hole, to an oversized and flat green, with minimal bunker protection. It’s a one -shot hole that doesn’t even require one good shot to make par; Indeed on dry ground I expect you could comfortably take it out with 3 putts. The oddest thing about this hole is that the opportunity exists (just look 30 yards right, the whole way) to make a semi- island green, or failing that, a hole-from-hell for slicers. Instead it’s just a fillet of an index 18.

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17 at RCD is tedious. The lack of framing of the tee or green, and the driving range appearing alongside, do not help.

12 at Lough Erne serves little purpose other than to take you from one lake view to another.

callaway92

I think holes where you're forced to do one thing and can't play it multiple ways are poor. For example the 13th in Ballykisteen (parallel to the road). I think it's an unacceptable hole personally. Unless you can manouvre a massive slice with your Driver, you simply can't use it if you're a long hitter.

Russman

12 & 13 in Druids Heath IMHO have to be up there. Hard to really quantify why, I just think they're terrible golf holes.

george67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379929#Comment_121379929

i can understand your view on the 12th but the 13th is a real golf hole one you habve to think about and it looks stunning

slave1

Great idea for a thread, any hole where you walk excessively backwards in transition, especially uphill as I hate waste and it's a waste of my time and energy e.g. couple of holes in Delgany

dan_ep82

Severely side sloped fairways. Bellewstown front 9 has some of these.

Holes that force a short carry off the tee and a long carry to the green.

Blind shots into greens. Boring and just dangerous. I know some people like them but I’ve never liked them

Shared fairways

Tee off over a green, looking at you greenore

slave1

I think the first three on that list are course attributes, I don't think it's makes them bad per se

Bellewstown front 9 does wear you out, I agree with that!

dan_ep82

Think of your favourite hole, then slope the fairway, make it so you can only hit a 9i off the tee and then put the green behind a hill. I doubt it would stay a good hole

frink

Any par 3 over 200 yards is nearly a bad hole in my eyes

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121386198#Comment_121386198

Agreed. Unless it’s severely below you.

Any distance beyond probably 190 is cruel and goes beyond being a ‘challenge’ and starts to bring luck into things, especially since shorter hitters are forced to hit long woods etc

flugel

New Forest, 12th hole

Don't think anyone who's played it could think it's anything other than terrible

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121386198#Comment_121386198

Exactly right on the severe downhill, there's the one in Esker Hills, Hermitage and Macreddin but they are not that long, the one in Bellwestown is however and water LHS OOB long, a great hole

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121387922#Comment_121387922

Was a member there for a few years, a joke of a hole, how they thought that diagonal water would work? Almost always 2+ shots over par in comps. This is also the course with the outrageous 2+shots over par 4th and lets not mention the ridiculous par "3" 16th, try playing that in the monthly medal into the prevailing wind

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379679#Comment_121379679

I was playing East Clare at the weekend and the 10th hole there sounds similar, I thought at the time it was a bit of a bullshit hole.

It's >= 90 degree dog leg to the right but with tall trees and a big lake at the corner that will stop all but the most confident drivers of the ball going for distance off the tee. Because of where the green is located, you are slightly playing back on yourself once you get to the bend.

Have to take a high iron off the tee to lay up, but then there's a massive tall tree smack bang in the middle of the fairway that you need to avoid on your second shot. And because you've laid up, the second shot is a long one, and to make it worse the green is up at the top of a slope.

blue note

Are boring holes bad or just boring? For me, I'd want something to annoy me about a hole to call it bad. For me an awful lot comes down to context. I want variety on a course, so I wouldn't hold it against any hole if it's straight or flat or extremely hard / easy. If it's offering something new to me in that round there's merit to it.

Even giving players options on a hole isn't always what I want. Generally speaking I love options, I want to have to make decisions on what to do as opposed to being given one way to play it. However, giving people an out on every hole is poor design for me. Once or twice in a round being forced to take on water or bunkers or whatever is a good thing. A course should test a golfers repertoire of shots and you shouldn't be able to get away with playing every hole one way. Now I'm not thinking of 180 yard carries over water that a significant amount of people would struggle with in good conditions and simply not be able to do into a moderate breeze. But something like an island green is a good example of it. The 17th at sawgrass is a dream hole to play for every golfers, because they relish the fact that they have to take on the shot.

Conditioning is one thing that can make a hole bad. If you have a hole that doesn't get any light so you've no growth in a key area on a hole - that's a real design flaw. Or an overused area for collecting tee shots. The 11th in Corballis would be an example of this.

The risk / reward options being the wrong way around can make me dislike a hole too. Sitting on the tee on a par 5 and thinking a driver here will take the danger out of play is okay on it's own, but not ideal. If that's coupled with a second shot where going for the green with your second will take danger out of play then that's a stupid hole. Similarly, a par 4 where going for the green from the tee will very possibly leave you an easier second if you don't pull it off is a similar problem. The 11th in Corballis would be an example of this.

Blind shots can be another problem. They have their place, but what I hate them being coupled with is an abundance of places to lose your ball. If you've a blind shot, you should still be able to pick out a line, where if you get the line and distance roughly right you'll be able to find your ball. A blind shot where you've big run offs to trouble or a random tuft of thick rough where you can lose a ball in the middle of the fairway are definitely bad holes. The 11th in Corballis would be an example of this.

But overall, I want something stupid on a hole for me to regard it as bad. I was struggling to think of holes I really dislike, but someone mentioned the 12th in New Forest and I wholeheartedly agree. On a course I love it's an awful hole. There's a big stupid tree in the middle of a drain halfway up the hole that there's pretty much no way to avoid. As I say, being given one way to play a hole can be good. Being given pretty much no way to play a hole definitely qualifies something as a bad hole for me. There are a few other examples of how this can happen too - a green that is virtually impossible to hit would be one. In particular in summertime where the ground is hard and the greens fast. If the best players in a club can't keep the ball on a green, then the design is at fault. If the penalty for not keeping it on the green is severe then it's even worse.

blue note

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121379679#Comment_121379679

I'm not familiar with the hole, but I'm pretty sure I understand what you're describing. I absolutely disagree. I would really struggle to play a draw to the point that I'll virtually never take on that shot and I think courses are 100% right to expose that limitation in my game. Macreddin has at least one hole that does this, possibly two. Par 5 13 - if you can draw it and choose to take on that risk then you can give yourself a very reasonable second shot to the green. A fair reward in my view. And the par 4 16th - if you can draw it and take on the shot it's not a bad par 4. If not, it's a long tough hole.

In 18 holes I want to be given the opportunity to hit the shots I'm best at, but I also want the course to put it to me that I can either try the shot I'm uncomfortable with or play within myself and take my medicine.

IAmTitleist

10th hole at ConcraWood is the first one that springs to mind for me. Punt out a hybrid about 220 yards and then its down a ski slope to the green.

Skyfloater

The 16th at Hermitage. The second shot for an average driver of the ball like myself means you have a completely blind shot over a hill to the green. You don't even have the top of a tree as a guide, so have to aim at a passing cloud.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391008#Comment_121391008

No - this is a joke that forces a slice with a driver. Not a controlled fade etc. It’s a very bad golf hole. A decision being completely taken out of your hands is not a good golf hole.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391309#Comment_121391309

sometimes the land presented forces this onto the course layout, that is forgivable IMHO but not if there was an alternative

patsat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391309#Comment_121391309

I wouldn't say it forces a slice with a driver. Because laying up with a 4/5 iron can leave you with an 8/9 iron into the green.

Unfortunately the hole has to be that way because of balls going out on the road. So it's out of their hands.

But what does ruin that hole, is the fact that nearly everyone hits irons off the tee, and naturally tee it up over on the left side of the tee box to give themselves the best line possible. The tee box is ruined as there is a build up of divot repair mix on the left side of the tee box making it all uneven. Fix that issue and the hole isn't too bad.

PARlance

Probably more in line with @thewobbler s thinking of bad holes on good courses but I've always thought that the opening few holes in Ballybunion are very poor (relative to the rest of the course).

The first hole is grand, when the rough isn't up, you can just bomb it down without much strategy. The views of the graveyard and holiday homes isn't a nice backdrop. The second involves a crazy approach. The third is an OK long par 3 but you're then teeing off over that green on the 4th. The 4th and 5th are just holes to get through, both quite similar.

That start is long forgotten by the time you've finished though.

I struggle to remember bad holes on lesser courses as they tend to be forgotten about quickly.

Our course was redesigned lately and they added a tee to the par 3 10th. The tee is about 30 yards to the right of the original tee. A huge tree to the right of the green makes it a really daft hole. Most of the small tricky green is blocked out. The new tee was built and used twice I think.

slave1

yeah, relativeness creeps in, it's not as if the front 9 in Tralee or the back 9 in RCD are "bad" but they pale compare to their opposing 9's. Imagine RCD front 9 with Tralee back 9!!!!!!! And Tralee front 9 with RCD back 9 would still make a great course

thewobbler

There’s a blind par 3 at Royal Belfast (maybe hole 11 or 12) which is just an absurd hole. Even moreso because it is framed nicely at tee and green, and a skilled digger driver could make it a very decent hole for an afternoon’s work.

As a rule of thumb I have no time for uphill par 3s.

Unnecessary water hazards would be a bug bear too. Lisburn’s index 1 would be a wonderful hole had it stuck to a natural run off in front of the green, instead there’s a ball magnet pond. Similar story on Kilkeel’s index 2, when an ugly pond changes what otherwise could a strategic hole. Seapoint’s index 1 (5th) tries its best to undo its claims to be a links course. And I really like those 3 courses.

someone above mentioned 12 at Druid’s Heath. I believe it’s been remodelled since I played it, but it would definitively have made my worst holes list as it just struck me as a hole where a good score was 50%+ dependent on luck. Actually, most of Druids Heath would qualify.

slave1

I thought that Royal Belfast blind par 3 was lovely, okay, the first time it’s hard but once you have your distance you should be okay, sounds like The Dell in Lahinch would be considered bad whereas I think it’s excellent. Whilst not in most new golf courses blind holes were normal “back then”

Miley Byrne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121384817#Comment_121384817

You wouldn't be a fan of The Old Course I take it?

monkeybutter

any hole with an internal out of bounds

dan_ep82

I presume you mean headfort ? I like it for what it is,a solid if in exciting parkland , but I don’t like the approach on 11 or the tee off on 16.

willabur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391607#Comment_121391607

agreed on the second hole in BallyB, its a nice tee shot to be fair. But the approach is a ridiculous shot to ask of a golfer. 4 and 5 are okay holes, tbh I find it hard to tell them apart and I've played the course plenty

CSWS101

6th @ Carne WAD - even if you get a good drive off, all ends up in the same place. Blind uphill approach to a flat benign green. I don't care much for 18 either, cool 2nd shot but if you can't reach it all ends up in same place, blind uphill wedge shot.