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Israel/Palestine Thread

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Have you considered that the reason Israeli soldiers aren’t entering the hospital is because the optics of heavily armed, well fed IDF soldiers surrounded by the bodies of emancipated patients and dead babies may not play well among the majority of people around the world.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You know, I know, and the world knows, that it is Hamas militants fighting the IDF at the hospital, despite all the claims that there was no military complex at the hospital.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭amandstu


    You can mess up a party whether or not you win the general election.

    He represented a small part of the Labour base,which made i success unlikely even in favourable circumstances)

    The Party as a whole knew this but could not get the monkey off their back.



    I thought at the time he was elected he might have done the honourable thing and resigned ....


    I know he had his supporters ....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    You are still making unsubstantiated claims despite saying you are not making unsubstantiated claims.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Evidence? Any at all?

    No. Don’t drag “the world” into your nonsense speak for yourself. Wizards!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,051 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    This is strongly disputed by international medics and NGOs working at the hospitals and in the general environs. I would believe those over the liars and propagandists of the IDF any day - only one of those two groupings has a political agenda and clear motivation to mislead everyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,002 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Great post. It appears that is exactly what is happening. Israel have a plan to destroy Northern Gaza as a place to live.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Former Israeli ambassador: “It was proven that Al Shifa is a militant headquarters!”

    Journalist: “Who has proven that Al Shifa is militant headquarter?”

    Ambassador: “That’s holocaust denial”


    Niccolò Machiavelli :

    "To ally with great powers to defeat your neighbour is a strategic trap; if you win, you become the slave of the greater power; if the allied power is defeated, you remain alone and defenceless against the angry neighbour, and you are destroyed." - Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    They have **** all evidence. Nothing is underneath there.

    ’what hospitals are we targeting?’ Lol the ones you did CGI for, the ones you surrounded with tanks, the ones you shoot the workers of when they go recover bodies.

    immediately names Al-Shifa hospital. But tell him what hospital they’re targeting

    “when was the last time you were in Gaza!” Gotcha! He thinks this anchor has no clue

    “18 months ago”

    ”…….”

    ”when were you?”

    ”…a few years ago”

    big bluffers have **** all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,791 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Do you see the Palestinians held without charges in Israeli prisons as hostages?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭sock.rocker*


    The level of logic I am seeing here is frankly incredibly. If any attacking force in any war meets resistance at a hospital, it means that hospital must be occupied by enemy forces and is therefore open to bombing while people are still in it.

    Gaza is talked about as if the people there are trespassing on their own land, like how dare Israeli forces meet resistance in this land of theirs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 828 ✭✭✭Hey boy


    there is a video of a chap firing an rpg From the outside of a hospital on jpost i think



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    There is a very blurry image of a man somewhere doing something but it's unclear if it's an RPG or near any given hospital.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,002 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    The calibre of Israeli politicians is quite dire.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭brickster69


    I wonder why they are not going in with all guns blazing ?


    Niccolò Machiavelli :

    "To ally with great powers to defeat your neighbour is a strategic trap; if you win, you become the slave of the greater power; if the allied power is defeated, you remain alone and defenceless against the angry neighbour, and you are destroyed." - Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,002 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    At the hospital? Near the hospital? Under the hospital? Where are these Hamas fighters exactly? Are they shooting at tanks?

    Proof of a military complex please. The doctors and other medical staff haven't seen it. Are they lying?

    All over the shop as usual.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,051 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    They're so used to lying through their teeth and not being challenged - it's almost a shock to them when someone starts to question them hard and contradict them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I like how when you question them for any evidence that's 'holocaust denial' but denying anything said by the health ministries and NGOs is to be taken as Hamas propaganda. Very loose double standards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Niccolò Machiavelli :

    "To ally with great powers to defeat your neighbour is a strategic trap; if you win, you become the slave of the greater power; if the allied power is defeated, you remain alone and defenceless against the angry neighbour, and you are destroyed." - Niccolò Machiavelli



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Biden, Blinken and Lloyd Austin getting sued in the US for not preventing and aiding genocide in Gaza.


    Niccolò Machiavelli :

    "To ally with great powers to defeat your neighbour is a strategic trap; if you win, you become the slave of the greater power; if the allied power is defeated, you remain alone and defenceless against the angry neighbour, and you are destroyed." - Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Housefree


    It's funny that you state

    Are they guilty of the racist white supremacist notion that darker skinned people are less morally developed

    Because this basically is the apartheid state of Israel

    People are against colonizers stealing all the land and a brutal occupation and apartheid as declared by Amnesty international & Human Rights Watch and other human rights organisations.

    You calling them racist or anti Semitic makes as much sense as calling people who were against slave owners/Nazis as racist. It defies logic. Zionism is a Jewish supremacy movement



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭sock.rocker*


    The protests are a result of split opinions. If politicians are on one side, and there are a lot of people on the other, then you get protests.

    Trying to paint it as something about Jews or antisemitism or racism or whatever is just admitting you haven't considered this carefully enough. If a Western politician came out and supported any of those things you just listed, people would protest in the other direction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 354 ✭✭Ulixes


    Politicians aren't on one side. The Centralist ones here are reasonably considered in their response, albeit they are cognisant of the strong anti-Semitism that is present in this country. The populists and the Marxists are vociferous in their condemnation of Israel while being very mealy mouthed in their condemnation of Hamas. I can't comment on your reply to my post as my post has been deleted. I will say that I question the motives of those protesting against one side in one conflict while being happy to ignore other far more serious conflicts.

    On the specifics of the rights and wrongs of this conflict and who has a claim to the land, that depends on when you start counting from. In my opinion the only solution is a two state solution and the rights are wrongs of history are irrelevant. It's deeply ironic that Netanyahu's extremist government and the Talibanesque Hamas have common cause in that both are fighting to ensure that doesn't happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭gotaf


    That's brilliant. The "when was the last time you were in Gaza" bit is gas. A lot of Israeli stuff I'm seeing online is like watching a parody.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    It absolutely is. Did you see the IDF tweet, subsequently deleted, surprise, surprise, of the supposed nurse in a Gaza hospital saying Hamas were stealing all the supplies and she had to set a fracture on a 5 year old without morphine! Turns out she is an Israeli actress but the acting is so bad no one could have guessed.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,791 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Videos coming out today of Israeli soldiers saying that if they are told to hold their incursion in to Gaza, they will disobey those orders and complete their objective which is to 'flatten, control and settle'.

    Don't know just how true it is, but when put beside articles in Israeli media that say that they IDF is concerned that if hostages are released, that political leadership may use that fact to cutback on the planned ground plan gives it additional credence.

    Another counterpoint to those on here adamant that the only path to peace is Hamas to release hostages.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭RobbieV


    Some tunnels previously located were 70m deep. It was noted that Hamas communicate in the tunnels via landline.

    There are multiple re supply shafts and smaller entrances and openings located in houses and other public buildings

    Israel have been training units for combat in these tunnels and they will also be using unmanned vehicles.

    Best to go straight for the command centers as we see at the minute.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭gotaf




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 838 ✭✭✭Sir_Name


    When people show you who they are, believe them.

    Also, interesting he states Gaza can’t exist without natural resources when there is a gas field off its coast.



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